Modding a breville bb200

[Thundergod]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

My wife had a licenced sparky land on her desk once after hed fallen through the ceiling at work.

It seems he came into contact with a wire he thought was not live.

If it can happen to a professional, what odds it happening to an amateur?

[A_M]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

To continue the sidetrack - anyone find it curious that an unlicensed person can go and buy the parts and tools to do this?

PS Having seen a qualified sparky rewire a lightswitch while it was live doesnt leave me with great confidence that they have more capability than me...

You can buy a bong, a gun, knife and many other items... It does not mean that you have the right to use...

As per a previous post of mine... Bunnings and others no longer provide advice... They become libable    You may need to buy to have some one put it in and or trades people need to purchase..  That is OK...  

The instlation is another matter...

The other issue is that just like  Blue and brown wires and green/yellow etc there are codes of practice that one expects...  Crawl into a roof space check all you want and then get hit because some HANDY man did somthing wacked..

Cut any remaining wires that went to the electronics (which you should have removed) and tape any bare ends so they cant short out.

The above advice for eg is fraught with danger..  I would suggest that no one ever does this...  Wires that are no longer used SHALL be removed and or terminated correctly.. AS3000.   Any one ever see the cheep electrical tape remain sticky after it has become hot...  It does not..  The glue lets go and you have LIVE WIRES...

The French always had Green as active and RED as earth...   They have changes a little and while the main power cords now confirm to international standards...  Some of teh internal wiring is still verry confusing at times..

Working live is interesting and if done right is not such a problem...  Ever watched linesmen working in a storm on live power wires...  How many get hurt... Not as many as you might think...

The  problem is a little knowladge / perception of understanding is bloody dangerous and like drunk drivers...  Usualy end up killing some one else...

Quote:
It is against the law in Queensland to do electrical work without an electrical licence.

You may purchase but cannot install electrical accessories (eg. junction boxes, light switches, plugs, power points, light fittings without a cord) or fixed wire electrical appliances (ceiling fans, some light fittings, stoves, ovens, split system air conditioning).

Only a licensed electrician can install electrical accessories or fixed wire electrical appliances.  

This is from the wiring rules and standards and is the same for every state of Australia.....

Further more the issue is around electrical SAFETY...  Thus you can work on any thing you want if it is denergised / disconnected and not powered...  HOWEVER before attempting to connect to a power scource...  It must be tested and taged by a lienced person to ensure it is safe for teh user and also the grid..

I wounder how many would work on a TV or Microwave or the breaks on a bus carring school chrildren up and down the ranges... With no qualifications... Ya some might but your putting your self and others at risk... So in general most people dont because they have been told for years that a TV etc can kill you...

But wait... Coffee machines / roasters etc  and lots of 240 and water is OK...

No they are not...

The KKTO is the only system that I know of that is safe...  Why, becaus it requires no modification the the 240 appliance (TO) and the moter for the mixing is ELV (12 or 24) and provided by a standard plug pack..

I am happy to provide advice to people so that a Qualified person can check and or perform repairs...  But I will not and do not recomend any non qualified person perform any number of mods that get published on CS...

I am also sure that CS and the admins would also take the same stance...

****  However untill one or two get killed and no longer post or it makes the papers... Many will persist with the assumption that it will not happen to them *****

The sooner the Darwin Awards gets some applicants the better.

[reubster]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

Im really bothered by the inclusion of that Sunbeam modified circuit as well.
Whilst the circuit will work, what is presented is actually VERY unsafe.

The switching is incorrect.

Only the neutral has been switched,
This means, when the switch is OFF, there is still 240VAC live inside that enclosure.
In fact, with the switch OFF, everything in that circuit [up to that switchs output] would be floating at 240VAC.

DPDT switching that isolates both the Neutral and Active should be used.

There is no mention of the switch rating: This is very important......Ratings for both Current and Voltage need to be stated.
The majority of "off the shelf" switches available from Dick Smith / Jaycar would NOT be suitable for this application.


There is no instruction/comment regarding correct earthing procedures.
If that earth connection failed, was incorrectly made or was omitted that whole metal chassis could become live.

[A_M]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

Im really bothered by the inclusion of that Sunbeam modified circuit as well.
Whilst the  circuit will work, what is presented is actually VERY unsafe.

The switching is incorrect.

Only the neutral has been switched,
This means, when the switch is OFF, there is still 240VAC live inside that enclosure.
In fact, with the switch OFF, everything in that circuit [up to that switchs output] would  be floating at 240VAC.

DPDT switching that isolates both the Neutral and Active should be used.

There is no mention of the switch rating: This is very important......Ratings for both Current and Voltage need to be stated.
The majority of "off the shelf" switches available from Dick Smith / Jaycar would NOT  be suitable for this application.


There is no instruction/comment regarding correct earthing procedures.
If that earth connection failed, was incorrectly made or was omitted  that whole metal chassis could become live.

You are 100% correct... And I thank you for adding a second view and further confirmation that what may work, may not be safe..


As to DPDT ... That is what killed many, as people never stuck to breaking the Active... Thus GPOs today are manufactured so that both A and N are switched..

However it does not take too much for a home handy person to create a dangerious situation...

THus De energise and Dis connect... CHECK

1: That is turn the system off
2: Remove the power scource
3: Then check with a meter..

You may say why would you need to check after disconnecting ?

Opps... Some caps and ccts can hold a killing charge for a long time...

Oh and the one that get many... The bloody thing has a UPS between it and the wall.

Thus un plugging and turning off at the Wall and even the power switch on the machine... Does not mean that 240V is not present...

In hindsight it all sounds simple...

But reubster and I and others can only explain / comment after teh fact... You can think somthing is safe and then get hit / killed...

While we may have taken one look and said.. No because of THIS... But if we or others with experience are not physicaly on site etc... Our duty of care is to advise and recomend a Qualified person... They should also then have the insurance to cover them in the event that somthing goes wrong..

[Matt_King]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

Im really bothered by the inclusion of that Sunbeam modified circuit as well.
Whilst the  circuit will work, what is presented is actually VERY unsafe.

The switching is incorrect.

Only the neutral has been switched,
This means, when the switch is OFF, there is still 240VAC live inside that enclosure.
In fact, with the switch OFF, everything in that circuit [up to that switchs output] would  be floating at 240VAC.

DPDT switching that isolates both the Neutral and Active should be used.

There is no mention of the switch rating: This is very important......Ratings for both Current and Voltage need to be stated.
The majority of "off the shelf" switches available from Dick Smith / Jaycar would NOT  be suitable for this application.


There is no instruction/comment regarding correct earthing procedures.
If that earth connection failed, was incorrectly made or was omitted  that whole metal chassis could become live.

1) that switch is exactly where Sunbeam considered it fit to switch it (electronically).  They probably know more about this design than I do (or you do).

2) The earthing is exactly the same as Sunbeam used.

3) fair call on the switch rating.  The switch I used is 10A 240VAC, which is way more than the motor draws.

Please note, I did NOT modify any of the wiring going to the motor. All I did was get rid of everything that wasnt used (ie the electronics), and replaced a relay with a mechanical switch.

[A_M]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

Im really bothered by the inclusion of that Sunbeam modified circuit as well.
Whilst the  circuit will work, what is presented is actually VERY unsafe.

The switching is incorrect.

Only the neutral has been switched,
This means, when the switch is OFF, there is still 240VAC live inside that enclosure.
In fact, with the switch OFF, everything in that circuit [up to that switchs output] would  be floating at 240VAC.

DPDT switching that isolates both the Neutral and Active should be used.

There is no mention of the switch rating: This is very important......Ratings for both Current and Voltage need to be stated.
The majority of "off the shelf" switches available from Dick Smith / Jaycar would NOT  be suitable for this application.


There is no instruction/comment regarding correct earthing procedures.
If that earth connection failed, was incorrectly made or was omitted  that whole metal chassis could become live.

1) that switch is exactly where Sunbeam considered it fit to switch it (electronically).  They probably know more about this design than I do (or you do).

2) The earthing is exactly the same as Sunbeam used.

3) fair call on the switch rating.  The switch I used is 10A 240VAC, which is way more than the motor draws.

Please note, I did NOT modify any of the wiring going to the motor.  All I did was get rid of everything that wasnt used (ie the electronics), and replaced a relay with a mechanical switch.

Does every designer follows the rules or correct requirements.. NO!!!

All I did was get rid of everything that wasnt used (ie the electronics), and replaced a relay with a mechanical switch.

Still in breach of the LAW...

It is GMP to switch A and N... Regardless of what happens at the wall.

Just because a switch is rated at 10A it does not mean it is 100% OK...

Contacts are also around the Surge Currents  and continious draw..

I only use 10A for ELV for LV always 20A or better...  In particular when heating and or motors are involved..  Mineral based heating elements are allowed to go down to 0.01Meg for earth leakage...  Thus the reason why one or two on a cct will trip ya ELCB..

As an Electronics Eng and Electrical Contractor ( With a heap of other stuff) and with  development  of manufacture  of critical care equipment being a focus of the last 15 years...  Dont be too quick to cast doubt as to the knowlage and first hand experience some have...  

While I am happy to engauge...  Others may be a little less so, but it does not mean they are not Qualified or have even more knowlage.

Note: Just because  a supplier does somthing... It does not mean it is correct.. It often comes down to cost.. Opps VISTA

It is not about you...  It is about being safe...  And the cct as drawn does not follow a number of basic principles...

[Matt_King]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

Tell that To Sunbeam then. I dont doubt your knowledge and credentials.

one other point before I leave - if I had put in a DPDT switch, that would have involved extra cutting of wires, more potential failure points, etc. I just unplugged the spades off the electronics board, and plugged them straight into the ones on the switch.

[Dimal]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

Were not discussing matters insignificant here.... 240V AC can and DOES KILL.
The regulations have been put in place for a purpose - To Save Lives.

If you have neither the qualifications or an appropriate and current License, then you shouldnt go poking around inside an electrical appliance or anything else that is intended to be supplied from Mains Power.

Get the advice of a licensed tradesman in the first instance to determine if what you want to achieve is legally and safely possible. If it is, then engage the services of said qualified and licensed person to do the work for you. You might be surprised at what a bag of freshly roasted coffee can get you....

Mal.
(Retired Electrical Engineer, Licensed Electrician)

[macca2106]

Re: Modding a breville bb200

Callum
Ive just been reading thru this topic, as usual the hornets nest got a good shaking! Dont play with fire or electricity!!
By far the easiest solution to your problem is to do no modification to your BB200 at all. The instruction book that comes with the breadmaker indicates you have an option that will give a continuos cycle of 18 minutes, which under normal circumstances should be enough time to finish off your roast. If you would like a copy of the instruction manual PM me & Ill organise it for you.
MIB