Behmor / Gene / Hottop

[SubContractor]

Hey All

Im at the very early stages of attempting to convince myself that I should consider home roasting. I only have about 10 cups a week, so not huge volumes of consumption. I mainly want to roast in order to:
1. get a few kilos of beans I really like and roast as needed
2. save a bit of money in the long run
3. enjoy coffee at its best

My questions are:
1. just how good would these 3 compare to coffee roasted by a good professional roaster (person behind the wheel taken out of the equation)
2. given my not very frequent roasting, what are my realistic chances of getting equal (or at least *really* close to) quality
3. How much and what kind of difference in the cup can be expected between the 3 roasters mentioned?

Thanks a lot
Andrew

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

They all work well but all have small capacities

Of the 3 listed
1] The Behmore is the best value for money
2] The Gene is well designed and from reports has a long life when its maintained well
3] The Hottop can be categorised as a miniature commercial roaster

There are other ways to roast coffee as well
KK

[russellm]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

I purchased my Gene roaster from TalkCoffee around two and a half years ago. I followed Chris instructions for my first roast and have never discarded a batch i.e. never had a failure of undrinkable proportions. I do not believe that I roast with the same skill and control as a professional roaster, but I have a permanent supply of freshly roasted coffee on hand when I need it. The roaster has now paid for itself twice over. I sometimes wish for a larger batch size, but appreciate the fact that I can do back to back roasts. In two and a half years Ive done next to no maintenance other than cleaning and its not missed a beat in that time.  I regard my Gene as one of the best purchase decisions Ive ever made. Hope this helps.

Best wishes, Russell

[beanflying]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

At your volume maybe consider a popper or even one of the smaller air roasters, they will do 80-100g at a time so one or two roasts a week will give you some variation if that suits.

As most of us only have one of your choices a comparison will tend to be biased in most cases but what KK put above is a good general idea.

If you just want to have a play grab a sample pack of greens, a heat gun bowl and wooden spoon or a popper and have a go and see if you like what you produce, worth the few $$ for the experiment

[GregWormald]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

I have a Gene, and my only issue is the in-drum cooling (which can be bypassed).

I doubt youll be able to match the quality of roast that a roasting master gets from his machine, however:
**youll be able to have fresh coffee when you want it and not have to depend on what the pro has available;
**youll have coffee roasted the way you want it, not the way the pro wanted it;
**youll have access to coffees that most pros dont (see Bean Bay here);
**roasting is fun.

Greg

[beabeabeaner]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

Hottop.
Looks great.
Good build.
Cooling works.
Easy to get good results early on and flexible as you progress.
Maintenance OK, but you have to poke about in it after each roast. Filters an ongoing cost, but can improvise, see threads.

You get what you pay for. Just do it!

[maheel]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

If you just want to have a play grab a sample pack of greens, a heat gun bowl and wooden spoon or a popper and have a go and see if you like what you produce, worth the few $$ for the experiment  

if you can borrow a heat gun it will be nearly zero cost....... to kick you off

but at about $50 gun (with 3yr warranty) and bowl from bunnings for an easy 300g roast = priceless

[ajayro57]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

I have a Gene too, and have had no trouble in almost two years of roasting (machine bought second-hand from CSer). I love being able to roast when I want, as I always have fresh coffee. The Gene is easy to use and I have had compliments from friends who have sampled its coffee.  The Hottop is apparently a great machine too, but it is a lot more expensive than the Gene. I havent tried coffee from a Hottop, so I cant comment on that.

[>pullman]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

Good question... to many theyre just names and its easy to get caught up with the flavour of the month (which is always changing!).

Ill preface my comments by saying:
* I own and have used all three roasters enough to make the following observations with, I feel, a fair degree of accuracy
* Based on my experience, I use a Hottop as my roaster of choice and as a result of that was appointed the distributor for Hottop in Australia. While I therefore have a commercial interest in Hottop sales, I dont think this impairs my ability to give competing products a fair consideration and hopefully this summary bears that out.
* Longer-term users may have some alternative views on some of the finer points of the products I have less experience with (i.e. the Behmor and the Gene Cafe)

Behmor


In brief:
* ~$400
* Nominal capacity: up to 450g
* One-liner: An unbelievably good value for money starting point in roasting so long as you dont want to experiment too much

Good points:
* Cheap
* Low smoke output
* Better chaff handling than Hottop but not as good as Gene Cafe
* Highest roast capacity of the three

Bad points:
* Forced to use built-in profiles which cant be fundamentally changed
* Roast time gets longer as the roast capacity increases, so a 200g roast will have different characteristics to a 450g roast. I.e. you cant roast a winner at 200g and repeat the process with a larger load. Would have been far better to reduce the heater power and maintain the roast time
* Design makes it impossible to fit a bean mass temperature probe
* Internal cooling of beans is slow, but not as slow as the Gene

Gene Cafe


In brief:
* ~$750
* Nominal capacity: 250g
* One-liner: A great way to get an adjustable roaster for under $800, but for best results you need to consider an external cooling mechanism

Good points:
* Roast profile can be easily changed
* Excellent chaff handling (beans are clean!)

Bad points:
* Noisy roast process in absolute terms, and very noisy compared to other two - hard to hear bean cracks
* Very smoky roast process - no smoke suppression / filtering
* Internal cooling of beans is very slow - 8-12 minutes to cool a roast
* Design makes it impossible to fit a bean mass temperature probe
* Lots of plastic in construction - few reports of failure but doesnt look / feel as solid as the other two
* A minor gripe, but the count-down time display counts in tenths of a minute (i.e. 6 second increments) so youd go from 18.0 to 17.9 minutes.

Hottop B


In brief:
* ~$1500
* Nominal capacity: 250g
* One-liner: The ultimate in commercial-like roast control - provides the data and flexibility to let you roast the way you want to, providing you can justify the price.

Good points:
* Fully programmable - user has complete control over heater power and fan speed
* Quietest roast process of the three - very easy to hear bean cracks
* Fast integrated cooling in cooling tray - you can stop the roast when youre ready - beans are just warm within two minutes and cold within four
* Bean mass probe can be easily fitted
* Profiles can be saved to one of three memory locations if desired
* Smoke filters means lower smoke emission than Gene Cafe - output is similar to Behmor

Bad points:
* Price (relative to others)
* Filters are an ongoing expense (works out to about $50c per roast)
* Chaff removal is poorest of the three

A while ago I did a more detailed comparo of the Gene and the Hottop at http://www.coffeetamper.com.au/**/reviews/gene-hottop/, Ill probably add a Behmor component at some point.

Greg

[ajayro57]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

.

Bad points:
* Noisy roast process in absolute terms, and very noisy compared to other two - hard to hear bean cracks
* Very smoky roast process - no smoke suppression / filtering
* Internal cooling of beans is very slow - 8-12 minutes to cool a roast
* Design makes it impossible to fit a bean mass temperature probe
* Lots of plastic in construction - few reports of failure but doesnt look / feel as solid as the other two
* A minor gripe, but the count-down time display counts in tenths of a minute (i.e. 6 second increments) so youd go from 18.0 to 17.9 minutes.

After owning a Gene for almost two years, I must disagree with Greg on a few points:-

Noise - I roast outside where it is relatively quiet and I wouldnt say that the Gene is noisy at all. And I have no trouble hearing the cracks.
Design does make it difficult to fit a bean mass temperature probe, but not impossible. Dennis (Cuppacoffee) managed to fit a probe on his Gene a couple of years ago.
Durability. While the Gene is made with a lot of plastic, it nevertheless feels quite solid. I have had no problems.

[beanflying]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

Noise - I roast outside where it is relatively quiet and I wouldnt say that the Gene is noisy at all. And I have no trouble hearing the cracks.

Not that I own a gene but I have heard plenty of roasts done on one while besiide it on one occasion while I was using a Hottop at the same time. They are as Greg quite correctly pointed out "Noisy in absolute terms" with some beans hearing FC is difficult and SC in particular on a Gene is nearly impossible. As to fitting a Bean mass probe into this style of drum you are asking to have it ripped out or jam the drum mech.

My Stainless Bowl is still the best roaster I have owned in terms of control, noise and chaff removal 8-)

[TC]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

Noise - I roast outside where it is relatively quiet and I wouldnt say that the Gene is noisy at all. And I have no trouble hearing the cracks.  

Not that I own a gene but I have heard plenty of roasts done on one while besiide it on one occasion while I was using a Hottop at the same time. They are as Greg quite correctly pointed out "Noisy in absolute terms" with some beans hearing first crack is difficult and second crack in particular on a Gene is nearly impossible. As to fitting a Bean mass probe into this style of drum you are asking to have it ripped out or jam the drum mech.

My Stainless Bowl is still the best roaster I have owned in terms of control, noise and chaff removal  8-)

I have used and sold both roasters: Early Hottops where the concept of a back to back roast was impossible and then later, we added the Gene to our range.

At the stage we dumped them, the Hottops were a poor competitor to the Gene in my opinion. $1k for one 250g green roast in one session simply didnt cut it for me. I havent used a recent Hottop as the bang for buck equation isnt there in my opinion.

I sold an early hottop and a then gave a gene to a buddy of mine and he no longer uses the hottop either.

I disagree that cracks are difficult to hear with the Gene. An ear near the chaff collector will pick them up with ease and when compared to a Correcto which is noisy in absolute terms, no contest.

I still roast test batches with the Gene (now over 300kg without fault) and we still sell the Gene. 2 x Gene or one Hottop, each with their own limitations.... The choice is that of the bloke with the money in his pocket. As for the output, I reckon the Gene is excellent.

We still sell the Gene and hope in the future to add the 1kg model to range as well.

Chris

[gregpullman]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

.

Bad points:
* Noisy roast process in absolute terms, and very noisy compared to other two - hard to hear bean cracks
* Very smoky roast process - no smoke suppression / filtering
* Internal cooling of beans is very slow - 8-12 minutes to cool a roast
* Design makes it impossible to fit a bean mass temperature probe
* Lots of plastic in construction - few reports of failure but doesnt look / feel as solid as the other two
* A minor gripe, but the count-down time display counts in tenths of a minute (i.e. 6 second increments) so youd go from 18.0 to 17.9 minutes.

After owning a Gene for almost two years, I must disagree with Greg on a few points:-

Noise - I roast outside where it is relatively quiet and I wouldnt say that the Gene is noisy at all. And I have no trouble hearing the cracks.
Design does make it difficult to fit a bean mass temperature probe, but not impossible. Dennis (Cuppacoffee) managed to fit a probe on his Gene a couple of years ago.
Durability. While the Gene is made with a lot of plastic, it nevertheless feels quite solid. I have had no problems.

Noise: I did half a dozen roasts with my Gene when I first bought it and gave up, I could hardly hear a thing apart from whirr whine clatter. Ones ear does apparently get more used to the bean cracks with time - I find it a bit easier now than I did, but theyre still nowhere near as clear as on the Hottop. I tried putting my ear near the chaff collector but got both a sore back and a burnt ear! ;D I also think if you had the opportunity to hear them side by side as beanflying suggested, that youd realise it is quite a noisy process relative to the Hottop and Behmor.

Design re bean mass probe: Its straightforward fitting a temperature probe to where the hot air comes out of the roaster (AFAIK thats what Den did but I stand to be corrected) but that is NOT a bean mass probe. Im talking about a probe that sits IN the bean mass (hence the term bean mass probe :), and to date Id never heard of anyone being able to do that. In the Gene the beans move from one end of the drum to the other and theres a maze of metal plates in the middle. I dont see how any device could consistently stay inside such a mobile bean mass and not have its cord get tangled up.

Durability: I likewise have had no problems - my point was that there have only been a few reports of failures (plastic gears stripping out mainly) but its made predominantly of plastic which is inherently less durable than metal and exudes a less durable impression than the other two. I made no other claim.

I havent used a recent Hottop as the bang for buck equation isnt there in my opinion.

I sold an early hottop and a then gave a gene to a buddy of mine and he no longer uses the hottop either.

I disagree that cracks are difficult to hear with the Gene. An ear near the chaff collector will pick them up with ease and when compared to a Correcto which is noisy in absolute terms, no contest.

I still roast test batches with the Gene (now over 300kg without fault) and we still sell the Gene. 2 x Gene or one Hottop, each with their own limitations.... The choice is that of the bloke with the money in his pocket. As for the output, I reckon the Gene is excellent.

We still sell the Gene and hope in the future to add the 1kg model to range as well.

Chris

Perhaps you should actually try using one of the newer Hottops Chris, rather than just base your impressions on a model released about five years ago? :-? By the same token, its no surprise your mate prefers a programmable roaster (Gene) over a non-programmable one (old Hottop D) - if youd given him a Hottop B I think his decision would have been quite different.

You may not see value in a Hottop for yourself, but our sales indicate many others have a different opinion.

Greg

[TC]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

Perhaps you should actually try using one of the newer Hottops Chris, rather than just base your impressions on a model released about five years ago? By the same token, its no surprise your mate prefers a programmable roaster (Gene) over a non-programmable one (old Hottop D) - if youd given him a Hottop B I think his decision would have been quite different.

You may not see value in a Hottop for yourself, but our sales indicate many others have a different opinion..

Hi Greg,

Hows the hearing aid going? ;D

I have no doubt the new Hottops are very good roasters. I have never questioned that. I think the build quality is great and tweakability now seems to be good as well.

As for me, my preference is for my HG. My gene is my robusta roaster and I use it sometimes to ascertain whether I like a particular bean sample or not..

As mentioned previously, they just dont tick my bang for buck boxes and thats my personal opinion. Different CSers have different opinions, and its all about what suits the individual best....

Ultimately, its great that CSers have so many options, from popper through commercial. There is a solution and price point to suit each CSer and great outcomes are possible with pretty much anything with a modicum of care.

Chris

[beanflying]

Re: Behmor / Gene / Hottop

Only one missing in these two shots out of most of the dicussed roasters was the Behmor (not available on 240V at the time). Funnily enough all the items there from the Bowl and Popper on up roasted beans really well

Bloke in the backgound having a cuppa is Chris watching the Gene


My ugly mug getting ready to run the bowl and spoon in between using Andys Hottop