Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

[Dimal]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Good idea Ash.... 8-)

Id suggest putting it out there for one of our many respected Professionals to compare. More likely to get an informed opinion that way, Id reckon.....

Mal.

[Ash]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

I may be able to offer my services in this discussion in a few weeks. I currently own a Gene Cafe, a Behmor, a Hottop (B model) and a Baby Roaster.  I could also offer up a bunch off beans ( my stash is getting obscenely large and could do with a cull...). What Im thinking is that what I could do, is roast the same bean in each of the roasters, back to back and see what happens. Id be happy to send the beans off to someone who has a much better palate than me to see if or what the differences are.

Would any of you be interested in trying this? I could use the same batch size in each of the roasters (200gr green - max size of the Baby), and they would be roasted in approximately the same environmental conditions up here in Toowoomba. Id initially use some PNG Wahgi AA ( to my taste I find it a sweet coffee with a larger acidic taste than what I prefer, and I have 7-8 kg of it...). Could also then use optimum size for each roaster, and for the Hottop, do one roast using the fan and another with out the fan.

I probably wont be able to do this for about a month (away with work for two weeks, then moving house), but Id be happy to add some data to this discussion.

Any takers? 

[sidewayss]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

After the second test with the bigger batches using same set up, i could not find anything significantly different. There is again, a subtle difference, but not enough to make a song and dance about revelations about silica sachets and their efficacy.
Looks like the good ole one way valve bags do a good job by themselves to keep the beans fresh without any paraphenalia.

Gary at G

[KJM]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Looking forward to your tasting notes between the toddler n Gene KJM, and some pics would be nice too regarding the toddler 

Well, from previous experience I pretty much know what the tasting notes are going to be : - but Ill wait till I actually do the A/B comparison with this batch.

There are some pictures I snapped of the thing in this thread http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1301034939.

/Kevin

[sidewayss]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Sorry for the delay Mal.

Had a quick look at the silica today before re-sealing bag.
Could not see any change in colour of any kind.
I used a sachet as well as a cylinder of silica.
Will post this wednesday to mark the 10th day.

Looking forward to your tasting notes between the toddler n Gene KJM, and some pics would be nice too regarding the toddler 

Gary at G

[KJM]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Well, I roasted a total of 1500g of coffee this weekend - 3x250g batches in the Gene, and 3x250g batches in the toddler.

The Gene profile was 250C pre-heat; bung in beans; FC @ 10mins, reduce to an indicated 226C and 4:30 till pulled (just short of 2C). The toddler profile was consistently 10minutes to FC (nailed that!) and about 4mins till I just got a snap or two of 2C. So the temperature ramp in the toddler was a bit higher than the Gene, but not by all that much, I think.

Weight loss in the Gene was 15.5% (same for all 3 roasts). Weight loss in the Toddler was 15.8,15.9,15.5%. So the toddler does vary a bit, which is hardly a surprise to anyone.

Now, the figures are pretty much the same (IMHO) since the scales I used were 1g resolution things and there was 250g overall, so it could be +/- 0.5g and still come in on the same value...

Im slightly surprised at the result: weight loss seems identical. But then again, if the temperature in the roaster is 200C then the steam is "dry".


/Kevin

[luisneumann]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

I also have cupped the samples from the silica and non silica bags and as Gary, did not notice any real differences between the two....

[Dimal]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Gday Gary....

Did the Silica Gel change colour - indicating that it had adsorbed some moisture?

Mal.

[sidewayss]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Interesting result of 13.5% from the Gene.

This kind of test needs to be duplicated to be consistent enough to weigh results.

I have cupped the samples from the silica and non silica bags.
Ground each 1 tablespoon into 2 separate cups, and asked mum to position them in a blind tasting.

Tasted after pushing the scum.
Ill have to say i did not notice much of differences worth noting. There are differences, but i could not pick which one i preferred.

Going to conduct another test.
Bigger batch at 200gm each instead of 100.
Will roast a bit darker knowing the silica gels will show a more obvious result on the surface oils on the bean.
Two bags of silica rather than one.

So....hopefully will see if the lower moisture levels in one bag show through in the cupping in 10 days time.

Gary at G

[Dimal]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

I love the smokiness of lapsang souchong tea. Slightly smokey coffee could be interesting.

Actually, I quite enjoyed it. It wasnt at all overpowering and didnt seem out of place in the overall flavour profile. Yet another way to enjoy coffee and roasting at home in my view.... 8-)

Mal.

[conan.obrien]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Ive been concerned for a while that I can taste a certain smokiness in the beans roasted in the Baby/Toddler

I love the smokiness of lapsang souchong tea. Slightly smokey coffee could be interesting.

[Dimal]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Again, I thank Mal (and Ian)  for their exceptional diligence (that was but a small fragment of the tasting report

You are most welcome Kevin and I appreciate the opportunity to try something new ... Its all gone now though

Most of the flavour discrimination comes courtesy of my youngest son Ian; he has a much more sensitive palate than I and is a very good home cook too so is quite adept at isolating flavour nuances across a flavour spectrum - Come to think of it, so is my eldest son Ken too but hes not as close to home unfortunately.

Sitting back and enjoying some of my latest Mocha-Java efforts as I type this. Mmmm... Were a very spoiled lot, we CSers 8-)

Mal.

[KJM]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Small update to this discussion.

Ive been concerned for a while that I can taste a certain smokiness in the beans roasted in the Baby/Toddler (there has just got to be a proper name for this thing!!). Since I first tasted it, I keep looking for it and not surprisingly keep finding it.

So I sent a batch to Mal (thanks Mal) for him to taste and see if he can pick a problem. Of course, dimwit here forgot to also send a batch roasted in the Gene so there could be a proper A/B comparison, but I figured at least he could tell me if he thought it tasted OK, and could he taste the smoke.

Turns out my smoke detectors are not mis-firing, but the Mal (and Son) taste crew dont rate it as a defect. The beans I sent were the KJM blend and Mals view (which I have infinite respect for, since he posted how to roast PNG beans to stunning goodness ) is (commenting on it as an espresso):

Put quite simply, this makes for a superb espresso. It has an almost creamy, buttery mouthfeel that covers the palate with an overall light sweetness that is very, very pleasant. The acidity is just sufficient enough to ensure that the slight fruitiness of the Ethiopian comes through and is not drowned out by the creaminess (which can sometimes happen for example, if too much Monsoon Malabar is used). The chocolatiness (dont think that this is a word) moves up the scale somewhat to encompass more of a medium/dark flavour and is more persistent at the finish than with the Syphon brew. Once again, a slight smokiness is detected towards the finish (and can also be detected while grinding as it happens) but dissipates quite quickly.
A very more-ish espresso...

So armed with that view, the roasts from the Toddler (and the Baby) seem to stack up well with other roasting technologies. Which is a relief, because I thought it seemed pretty OK, apart from the smokiness, which I feel slightly happier about now.

So for me the data points are: Baby/Toddler good, but smokey. The beans Mal tried (thanks to Oz Post) arrived for tasting with about 4-5 days post roast relaxing/degassing. From the comments above, I conclude that they had dropped in acidity - which the roast in the Gene would not have done by this time. So seems the other data point is still that the roasts "mature" more rapidly.

Again, I thank Mal (and Ian) for their exceptional diligence (that was but a small fragment of the tasting report!).

I think I need to go to Beanology

/Kevin

[luisneumann]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Well, I just roasted my batch on the Gene and as as we say in science, the tragedy is when an ugly experimental fact gets in the way of a nice theory. I got only a 27g loss, so it gives me 27/200 * 100 = 13.5 %, so close to the result Gary got, but actually lower....so lower mass loss.
The only difference is that I did roast different coffees as I did not have the same as Gary ( Brazil Bourbon Naturals 100g, Harrar Longberry 100g) to CS9. I did place them in two bags, one with silica, one without. I will report the results in a week.

[Dimal]

Re: Baby roaster and similar - compared to the Gene

Thanks very much Mark.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Interesting stuff indeed and Im sure there will be a log-jam at the door to get in and hear what you, Andy and Joseph have to say about this most intriguing subject. Wish I could be there myself...

Thanks again mate... 8-)

Mal.