Hottop, Digital

[wattgn]

Re: Hottop, Digital

The Hottop for the evaluation arrived yesterday.

I first abused it by running it without beans. It got up to 211C on the internal thermometer and 258C on the one I stuck down the bean chute, that is what it read anyway right before the insulation melted on it! I thnk 260C was the critical temperature.

I removed, carefully, a small piece of plastic melted onto the chute, and then roasted the beans that they gave me, some Columbian. Very nice.

So far the machine is very impressive, well put together, easy to take apart and shows a very smooth progressive temperature profile.

I like it!

Grant

[Dimal]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Mal,

You dont mind then if I call you Dr Frankenstein? ;D

Grant

Ahhh,

Well Grant, its a lot better than Dr. Frankenfurter but probably not half as much fun .

Cheers,
Mal.

[wattgn]

Re: Hottop, Digital

If anyone is interested (and you probably wont be unless you live in Perth), I have the invite for the next roast day and cafe day up under coffee news.

I am evaluating the Hottop (short of an Oz Post tragedy) and I am determined to make it as much fun as possible while seeing what this baby will do!

I want to do a good review on this so that manufacturers will take us seriously and see that we can deliver the goods (and give us other things to review). This doesnt mean a whitewash either as it is important to be seen to be objective otherwise the review would be seen as a waste of time.

This machine has an excellent track record (even if it wont suit everyone) and so far I havent heard a bad word from any current owners on this thread.

Grant

[wattgn]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Mal,

You dont mind then if I call you Dr Frankenstein? ;D

Grant

[Dimal]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Exactly. There is no right or wrong in this. Its purely personal choice - a bit like those tamps for which you can pay a couple of dollars or 50 times that. After nearly 20 years of making espressos at home, I wasnt even aware that after market tamps were available until I joined coffeesnobs last month. There are people who swear by these things, and if it works for them, fair enough.
I like my Hottop so far, and if its still going in a few years without any major intervention, Ill love it. Only then will I be really convinced that I got my moneys worth.

Yup,

Too true. Ive always been an analytical sort of bugger though, probably something to do with my engineering background, and you know what were like :-X. If something just doesnt look up to scratch for the money, then start from square one with your own design until youre happy with it and can see the intrinsic value there-in.

Cheers,
Mal.

[joe]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Mal:

Thats the whole point though.  Value for money is a very personal thing related to lots of factors, income/cost only being one of them.

It is interesting though speculating why people tend to spend more on one item than another.

Grant

Exactly. There is no right or wrong in this. Its purely personal choice - a bit like those tamps for which you can pay a couple of dollars or 50 times that. After nearly 20 years of making espressos at home, I wasnt even aware that after market tamps were available until I joined coffeesnobs last month. There are people who swear by these things, and if it works for them, fair enough.
I like my Hottop so far, and if its still going in a few years without any major intervention, Ill love it. Only then will I be really convinced that I got my moneys worth.

[wattgn]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Hi guys:

Im evaluating (not buying - yet) a Hottop shortly, hence my interest in this thread.

If you have any aspect of the Hottop you particularly want me to review let me know.

I am going to map the temperature profile ie. temp/time for several load sizes and settings in order to judge how precise the temperature control is and to analyse the profiles used.

I will also be doing a blind cupping after roasting SO beans on both the Hottop and by other means and this will be incorporated into our next Perth Cafe day. Details to be announced shortly.

Any ideas you have can be posted on this thread or messaged directly to me.

Thanks,
Grant

[tim]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Hello all,
been out all afternoon and havent had the pleasure of reading developments in this thread.
Grant: vis-a-vis your hottop choice, dont take it personally, Im not judging anyones purchasing decision.....far be it for me to do that in this fine forum! That would never happen here!
Simply saying that its something that I would not choose to do and pointing out that there are other options.....
Good luck with your hottop, I reckon its a great unit.... but I wont be buying one.



"The day I think I have nothing more to learn, I might as well chuck it in."

[wattgn]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Mal:

Thats the whole point though. Value for money is a very personal thing related to lots of factors, income/cost only being one of them.

It is interesting though speculating why people tend to spend more on one item than another.

Grant

[Dimal]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Hi Grant,

Well, I guess you made the assumption that people will pay for whatever they want. In my case, and a few others I know, I never do that.... always try to make sure that I am getting value for my money and this is something that is not related to income either. Before I was struck down by strokes, I was earning more money than the Prime Minister and had been for quite a few years. Just because Ive got the money, does not imply by default that I am going to spend it without question and some investigation into the value of what I am considering to buy.

Cheers,
Mal.

[wattgn]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Dear Mal:

Mmm.

Value for money is a shifting target. I mean what is the real cost of producing an item. It depends on efficiency/scale.

The perceived value is different. If a million Giottos were produced a year or Hottops then the price would halve, no doubt about it.

At the end of the day it is the perceived value.

Salesmen always reckon that people buy what they want not what they need.

I am making the point though that people think nothing of paying more for a grinder or an espresso machine than for a roaster.

The difference is that there are a variety of cheap options for roasting rather than buying an expensive roaster.

If you look at the precision though that Hottop has wrt temperature and the accurate profiling of that temperature, you would have to compare it to a top end espresso machine. ie. people spend thousands to get machines that can control the temperature of the water to the nth degree. The Hottop appears to control its temperature extremely well.

The analogy is the same but people dont value the technology behind the roaster, possibly partially that there are so few home roasters. It also represents a materials failure

ie. not enough polished stainless to suck the punters in!?

Grant

[Dimal]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Mind you there are a lot of people who will spend 2k - 3k on the espresso machine $1k on a grinder then grizzle about the price of a roaster.

Grant

Hi Grant,

Personally, I seriously question the "value" assigned to espresso machines, grinders, et al.... whether comparing budget units or top shelf equipment.

The prices attached to most of this equipment is largely determined by a factor of what people will pay, what prices have been historically (though consumption was much lower, prices havent shifted in relation to economies of scale). For what ever reasons, there is a level of status assigned to the ownership of ones own personal coffee equipment which of course is promoted by the manufacturers and distributors alike.

The intrinsic science and materials of manufacture in this equipment is neither esoteric, rare or valuable... there are plenty of other devices for the home and elsewhere that serve much more complex requirements day in, day out and intrinsically contain more technology, more materials and work a hell of a lot harder but.... the mystique and rarefied nature of making ones own espressos or cappuccinos, etc seems to convince us as coffee consumers, that all of this equipment should be put on a level that must be considered to be above that of ordinary household appliances. At least 60% of what we pay for espresso machines, grinders, roasters and anything else associated with this "hobby", is nothing more than esoterica.

So, if we want to enjoy the wonder that is roasting, grinding and brewing superlative coffees, we are pretty well stuck in this esoteric bind of premium pricing for the hardware. Maybe if the Chinese decide that they want a piece of the ever expanding market of this equipment, then apply their manufacturing and distribution might to the tasks involved, sufficient competition for the products might be generated such that prices can be brought down to more realistic and reasonable levels that we could all enjoy. One can hope of course.

Just because the current market allows the manufacturers to get away with charging what they want for this hardware, does not automatically imply that that is what it is worth. Always look into the "real" value of any hardware before parting with your hard-earned, I believe.

Cheers,
Mal.

[fatboy_1999]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Mark:

Personally I think 250g is on the upper limit of what most home roasters would want.

More isnt always better.

I would like to experiment with smaller batch sizes in fact!

Grant

I would actually want larger capacity than 250g.
The BBQ drum I use can handle 650g green (which roasts down to roughly 500g) without any problems.
As I drink at home and take some to work and have a selection of friends and family keen to receive fresh roasted offerings whenever possible, I find that this capacity is very good for me. Even now, I sometimes do 2 roasts in a row (usually different flavours).
If I want to do a small batch, Ive got a popper and an Imex.

The hottop looks like a good unit, but its not for me due to the capacity.

[wattgn]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Mark:

Personally I think 250g is on the upper limit of what most home roasters would want.

More isnt always better.

I would like to experiment with smaller batch sizes in fact!

Grant

[Mark]

Re: Hottop, Digital

Id happily spend that price on a roaster, but I agree with Tim, not one that only roasts 250gms. Ill stick with my heatgun for now, but Im definitely working on making a BBQ drum based roaster. Even if I buy a new BBQ to dedicate to it it should still work out cheaper than a hottop with a greater capacity.

Although the off-the-shelf simplicity of the hottop certainly appeals.