Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

[fatboy_1999]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

Hmm.. I think an article is required on Backflushing your BM.

Keep it under 1000 words - have it on my desk by next Wednesday!

Seriously though, an interesting development. Good to hear it wasnt fatal.

[JavaB]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

OK folks, there is another potential problem.

Having done lots of roasts now (lost count!!!), I was doing my 400 grams of Malabar this morning (having just finished 300 grams of PNG A grade) when the world stopped for me - well the paddle at least...... just before 1st crack .

Pulled the roast, removed the BM bowl - no beans stuck but one very siezed paddle - couldnt even turn it by hand - even with extreame force.

Dissassembled the paddle bearing assembly - with some difficulty- only to find the whole assembly was full of coffee oils which had baked on to everything and finally turned into super glue and locked everything up!!!

Bit of rubbing and scrubbing once apart and all is back to normal.

Replace the beans and finished the roast (should be interesting)

I had heard an occasional "squeak" whilst roasting from time to time, but just assumed it was a bean being a little uncooperative and getting jammed..... So if you hear any strange noises check the paddle is really free to turn after the roast (and if you can pull it apart - clean it from time to time - probably a good idea)

[grendel]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

that would work nicely though.

[JavaB]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

If you remove the shaft assembly you should be able to re-attach the paddle out of the bowl. Using a drill press you could then drill a small hole through the paddle and shaft as aligned during operation. A high grade R clip could then be inserted to prevent any vertical movement.

That would work really well- however the shaft is stainless steel and would be very hard to drill without the right gear, drill speed - and a drill press like you said.

If I were to modify the paddle I would drill and tap it for a 3mm stainless grub screw which would grab onto the flat on the shaft.... Didnt suggest that as few CS members would have the gear to do that either

[Dimal]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

Hmmm,

Ive noticed the occasional bump and crash noise coming from the bread-pan in mine too when the roast has reached 1st C and after.... Obviously, this is something that might turn out to be a common problem with BM roasting ( >very short sighted of Sunbeam, Breville, et al) but from JBs experience, it seems like it can be easily fixed. Was planning to do another roast this Wednesday-ish so better get the hacksaw out before then and do a bit of paddle lopping .

Regarding the evenness or lack there-of that some people are experiencing with the larger batches, this is probably more related to the thermal capabilities (output in mega-joules) of the heatgun being used and its ability to produce an even dispersion of the heated air. Just for fun, I put 600 grams, then 750 grams into our BM just to see if the stirrer is still up to the job. Basically, it turns out that it isnt fazed in the least.... seems to stir 750 grams of beans as actively and as thoroughly as 300 grams. I dont know that my heatgun would be up to that task though. It manages 350-400 grams without much hassle so I guess Ill have to push it one of these days, and see just how much it can do .

As far as concerns with "polymer fume fever" and the like is concerned, Im not all that concerned as I do my roasts outside in the fresh country air where their is nearly always a breeze blowing. I just sit on the up-wind side of the roast and take it easy. Anyway, even though there has been a lot said about it (polymer fume fever) one way or another, independent medical studies like this one are, while not ambivalent, certainly not using language that would create huge concern. Heres the MSDS. Ill just stick to outside roasting and Ill be fine ,

Mal.

[grendel]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

If you remove the shaft assembly you should be able to re-attach the paddle out of the bowl. Using a drill press you could then drill a small hole through the paddle and shaft as aligned during operation. A high grade R clip could then be inserted to prevent any vertical movement.

Just a theory though - dont have a drill press myself.

[Corretto]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

Yes, that was the sound I got and, since I was using cold already roasted beans, I could investigate...

I found that you could get two beans side by side or even long ways trapped between the paddle end and the bowl... and hey presto.... loud sort of bang as something has to give! :-[

So I took the longest bean I could find, placed it where the side of the bowl was the closest to the centre and marked the spot on the paddle..... added a couple of mm for insurance and cut the paddle down, rounded the cut end and tried again....

This time not one loud noise within the 30+ minutes I tested....

And still plenty of "bean" stiring ;D

Re your paddle.... go to a hobby shop and buy some brass shim (comes in different thicknesses).... you can cut it with sharp scissors....

Cut off a little piece and place between the D shaft and the hole in the paddle so that it jams the paddle onto the shaft when you slide it on.... and being brass, no heat probs either.

Good ideas thanks Java. On further inspection I think youve hit the nail on the head, or the bean .... on the paddle ;D

I only have one bean, maybe less, clearance between the paddle and the side of the bowl on the short side. This must be the cause of the problem. The more beans in the bowl the bigger the chance of it hitting and lifting the paddle.

Ill have to grind the paddle back like you did and make it shorter. Might take all the teflon off while Im at it too 8-)

Maybe a 400+ gram roast is possible yet :

Belinda

[Corretto]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

OMG - feeling yr pain Belinda, I am devastated to hear that the Mistresses invention has turned on her! bad bread machine, bad!

I wonder if the answer is just that despite the incredible greatness of the BM roast, there is just a limitation on size. The biggest I can go on mine is 300 g - any more and the volume of beans, esp as they swell in the roasting process, is just too much for an even roast.

Hopefully there is a way to fix yr paddle, else maybe it is the garage sale for you next weekend and back to the safety of the 250g roast. Hope you get it sorted, I was only mentally singing your praises today as I spent a happy morning covered in chaff and smoke

Polly

Thanks Polly for the kind thoughts But I shall overcome!! and Im agreeing with the limitation theory, for the moment anyways.

Cant keep a good BM down I reckon ;D

Belinda

[JavaB]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

But maybe the beans have caught between the end of the paddle and side of the bowl and this has caused the problem. Every now and then there is a loud noise. Too quick to see what is going on, but maybe this was a bean catching between paddle and bowl .... causing the whole problem ......

Yes, that was the sound I got and, since I was using cold already roasted beans, I could investigate...

I found that you could get two beans side by side or even long ways trapped between the paddle end and the bowl... and hey presto.... loud sort of bang as something has to give! :-[

So I took the longest bean I could find, placed it where the side of the bowl was the closest to the centre and marked the spot on the paddle..... added a couple of mm for insurance and cut the paddle down, rounded the cut end and tried again....

This time not one loud noise within the 30+ minutes I tested....

And still plenty of "bean" stiring ;D

Re your paddle.... go to a hobby shop and buy some brass shim (comes in different thicknesses).... you can cut it with sharp scissors....

Cut off a little piece and place between the D shaft and the hole in the paddle so that it jams the paddle onto the shaft when you slide it on.... and being brass, no heat probs either.

[Baristacrat]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

OMG - feeling yr pain Belinda, I am devastated to hear that the Mistresses invention has turned on her!   bad bread machine, bad!

I wonder if the answer is just that despite the incredible greatness of the BM roast, there is just a limitation on size. The biggest I can go on mine is 300 g - any more and the volume of beans, esp as they swell in the roasting process, is just too much for an even roast.

Hopefully there is a way to fix yr paddle, else maybe it is the garage sale for you next weekend and back to the safety of the 250g roast. Hope you get it sorted, I was only mentally singing your praises today as I spent a happy morning covered in chaff and smoke  

Polly

[Corretto]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

Hi Belinda....

Firstly the paddle is held on the shaft with a wide groove machined across the shaft which matches a flat inside the hole on the paddle....

You should only be able to lift the paddle off if the shaft D section and the D hole in the paddle are aligned. When rotating the step in the paddle hole locks into the wide groove in the shaft.

You can test this by rotating the paddle against the motor (not running of course :) and trying to lift the paddle off.... You shouldnt be able to.... If you can then either the groove edges are worn on the shaft (unlikely) or the flat inside the paddle hole is worn (more likely) or the shaft has dropped (because of the heat) and the groove is now too low for the two bits to lock (also likely)...

Had a play around with this, but cant seem to get the paddle to lock into the shaft at all. Dont know what is going on.

One other thought- have you bypassed the auto controls? It might be possible that these sense a bean is getting jammed and then reverses the rotation ( just for an instant) to free the "dough". If a bean is trapped and rotation is reversed this will unlock the paddle/shaft and it can rise up >

My rotation is one way only. After 90 secs of pulsing it starts whirling continuosly for 25 mins. But maybe the beans have caught between the end of the paddle and bowl and this has caused the problem. Every now and then there is a loud noise. Too quick to see what is going on, but maybe this was a bean catching between paddle and bowl .... causing the whole problem ......

Belinda

[Corretto]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

The Breville Breadmaster has a fixed paddle. Im not sure whether Id persevere with the BM method, are we fully cognicent of the implications of "Teflon Flu" etc?

Yep, fully aware of the concerns about the teflon problems, however the bowl does not get hot enough to cause any real problems, as per discussions in the original thread.

Java took the teflon off jos BMs paddle which would have been the only concern.

Having said all this the BM method is definitely worth pursuing because of evenness of roast, ease of use and visibility of roast, not to mention other plusses.

Belinda

[JavaB]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

Hi Belinda....

Had my first BM roast today... your idea is fantastic! ;D

Sorry to hear about your problem .... got a couple of ideas for you.

Firstly the paddle is held on the shaft with a wide groove machined across the shaft which matches a flat inside the hole on the paddle....

You should only be able to lift the paddle off if the shaft D section and the D hole in the paddle are aligned. When rotating the step in the paddle hole locks into the wide groove in the shaft.

You can test this by rotating the paddle against the motor (not running of course :) and trying to lift the paddle off.... You shouldnt be able to.... If you can then either the groove edges are worn on the shaft (unlikely) or the flat inside the paddle hole is worn (more likely) or the shaft has dropped (because of the heat) and the groove is now too low for the two bits to lock (also likely)...

Also I shortened the paddle so that the longest dimension of a bean (when roasted) fits EASILY between the end of the paddle and the nearest point on the bowl wall (I have two projections into the bowl to improve dough mixing) I found this was necessary after several dry runs with already roasted beans.... the paddle would jam, try to lift and even do a very coarse grind of some of the beans

I had to remove almost 10mm from the end of the paddle (wasnt going to use it as a BM again) ....

With 250gms of green beans not one jumped out and the roast ran like clockwork. ;D

One other thought- have you bypassed the auto controls? It might be possible that these sense a bean is getting jammed and then reverses the rotation ( just for an instant) to free the "dough". If a bean is trapped and rotation is reversed this will unlock the paddle/shaft and it can rise up >

Hope that helps

[Presso]

Re: Trouble in Breadmaker Roasting Paradise

The Breville Breadmaster has a fixed paddle. Im not sure whether Id persevere with the BM method, are we fully cognicent of the implications of "Teflon Flu" etc?

[Corretto]

The story thus far ......

After about roasting happily with this method for 12 or so roasts (doing up to 200 grams) as per http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1154442377 I decided it was time to see just how big a roast I could do. Ive read of CS BM users doing 300 grams or so, so it was time to do a 400 gram roast.

I thought this would have been easily handled by the average BM, and so it should have been.

So the BM was loaded up with 400 grams of my first pre blended bean roast, using some beans that were getting on a bit. All was looking well.




Then about 3 minutes into the roast disaster struck! The paddle had hit a hard bean or some such and lifted up about 1/2 a centimetre
Enough so that the beans in the middle werent moving around that much and this had the flow on effect which forced more beans into the middle and the paddle slowly started making its way upwards. The roast was aborted




After dumping the beans (and the bowl was quite damn hot by this stage) I found the paddle to be moving quite free and easy on the spindle and not tight like it once was.

I started the BM again with about 250 grams of beans in it and it whirled quite happily (without heat, for around 4 minutes). However when the rest of the beans were dumped in the same thing happened again and like before the roast was aborted.

So mechanical CS gurus, what to do??? The paddle obviously needs to be tightened to stay on the spindle for the big roasts. But alas I know not how ......................

Hopefully this is an issue for my BM only.

Belinda