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Gene Café with PID Program Control

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  • Gene Café with PID Program Control

    Disclaimer
    -----------------
    This site, I or the manufacturer of Gene Cafe CBR-101 shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance of this information. No approval has been given by the manufacturer of Gene Cafe CBR-101 for any modifications to the Gene Cafe CBR-101. Any modifications done should be carried out by qualified electrical personnel.



    I have modified my Gene Café using a Temperature Controller with PID program control (Ramp/Soak control) the results have blown me away. My Modified GC has two modes, Default mode and PID program control mode. Profiles can be programmed manually or via a PC. A possible future expansion would be to have a second Modified GC running in tandem using the same profile!

    The original document is a PDF file (30 Mb) due to 1 Mb attachment limits on my sponsored website I’ve  had to resize the original file and break it up into 4 files , sorry for any inconvenience. The files are word documents, follow the links below.


    Part 1 http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/m1tv5vJ44SXduN6IfLXHWA%3D%3D496640
    Part 2 http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/bW3FHqEz6v4eoX2hkkg6dw%3D%3D921088
    Part 3 http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/h2WhmnuGlgW9FOzdlsyjMg%3D%3D727040
    Part 4 http://attachments.wetpaintserv.us/8Dp95fppLsrxNCNzQ%2BKg2w%3D%3D963072

    Enjoy!
    MZ

    2mcm





  • #2
    Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

    Thanks 2mcm for your offer and kind words.  

    For the moment Im happy to leave the file as is.  

    I really believe the Modified GC will blow the Programmable Hottop out the door; you can program as many profiles as you want and store them on your PC.
    I’m excited with profile 1, the drying phase is a key variable, still fine tuning this particular profile, trying to extend the pause between end 1 st crack and start 2 nd crack and a few more seconds into rolling second.

    All in all a magnificent roaster, I’m sure glad I didn’t go the other way!!  8-)


    MZ.  



    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

      Originally posted by Mocha Zarba link=1179613099/0#2 date=1179623238
      I really believe the Modified GC will blow the Programmable Hottop out the door; you can program as many profiles as you want and store them on your PC.
      To be fair, you could probably also modify a normal hottop and have the added advantages of (a) a drop temperature that would make for a similar roast profile to a commercial roaster and (b) super-fast cooling, neither of which the gene can really do.

      Great work!

      Luca

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

        Im curious. Ive found the biggest limitation of the gene is controlling the onset of first crack. It takes a long time to heat up and first crack never comes before 12 or 13 minutes. Any improvement on this? after that there is as much control as needed.
        people often criticize the gene cafe for its cooling but in the end there is nothing stopping you from removing the beans and cooling them in a colander.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

          Originally posted by muppet_man67 link=1179613099/0#4 date=1179635555
          Im curious. Ive found the biggest limitation of the gene is controlling the onset of first crack. It takes a long time to heat up and  first crack never comes before 12 or 13 minutes. Any improvement on this? after that there is as much control as needed.
          people often criticize the gene cafe for its cooling but in the end there is nothing stopping you from removing the beans and cooling them in a colander.
          There is no way Id want 1st crack in 12-13 min with a Gene..I like to roast mine on the inside as well ...When Peter Wolff of Veneziano said they often roast for 1/2 hr, I stopped worrying... I reckon its way more the profile than neccessarily total roast duration...

          2mcm

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

            Hi all

            Firstly MZ has done a marvellous job and has documented it as well. Thats a big plus and thanks for making that documentation available.

            The next thing that we want is to be able to buy a small electronic bean which is a temperature sensor. One places it in with the green beans. This would be the same size as a coffee bean and transmits the temperature via its inbuilt RFID chip to a receiver outside the Gene. That way one could have a perfect profile of what the beans actually experienced.

            (oh and an amplifier which filters out the motor noise and amplified the cracks)

            Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

              Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1179613099/0#5 date=1179637448
              Originally posted by muppet_man67 link=1179613099/0#4 date=1179635555
              Im curious. Ive found the biggest limitation of the gene is controlling the onset of first crack. It takes a long time to heat up and first crack never comes before 12 or 13 minutes. Any improvement on this? after that there is as much control as needed.
              people often criticize the gene cafe for its cooling but in the end there is nothing stopping you from removing the beans and cooling them in a colander.
              There is no way Id want 1st crack in 12-13 min with a Gene..I like to roast mine on the inside as well ...When Peter Wolff of Veneziano said they often roast for 1/2 hr, I stopped worrying... I reckon its way more the profile than neccessarily total roast duration...

              2mcm
              the reason I say that is based on a ramp and soak kind of profile. if your trying to extend the time between cracks then it makes sense to bring first crack on earlier so to prevent the roast going too long, but still have a long period of time between cracks. This is still pretty much just a theory for me. I havnt had the gene long enough to work out if I can taste any different.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                Excellent work MZ [smiley=thumbsup.gif],

                Very professionally undertaken and with heaps of potential yet to be revealed no doubt. Terrific stuff mate,

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                  Originally posted by speleomike link=1179613099/0#6 date=1179638261
                  Hi all

                  Firstly MZ has done a marvellous job and has documented it as well. Thats a big plus and thanks for making that documentation available.

                  The next thing that we want is to be able to buy a small electronic bean  which is a temperature sensor. One places it in with the green beans. This would be the same size as a coffee bean and transmits the temperature via its inbuilt RFID chip  to a receiver outside the Gene. That way one could have a perfect profile of what the beans actually experienced.

                  (oh and an amplifier which filters out the motor noise and amplified the cracks)

                  Mike
                  Wow- thatd be devastating when I forgot it and ran it through the Mazzer

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                    MZ, you just blow-up my eyes, if Im a master roaster you are a master engineer.

                    Together we can change the word "coffee roasting" by " Coffee HUMAN machine".

                    All Coffee Roaster Manufacturers should learn from use in the future and I invite them to create a real Human home Roasting Technology where the robe de moine will meet the silicone valley.

                    Love your job mate  

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                      Thanks everyone for your kind words.

                      Serge, I like the “Robe de Moine will meet silicone valley” I’m sure that in the not too distant future, the two will go hand in hand.  

                      I hope my Gene Café with PID program control document, gives inspiration and some form of contribution to this great forum.

                      Originally I wanted a Hottop; I could see great potential to hack that particular roaster, due to difficultly in obtaining a Hottop, my line of thought changed towards the Gene Café which I purchased from Talk Coffee, via Go Barista, the master roaster who introduced the Gene Café into this country, while I’m at it, the service from Talk Coffee is legendary stuff!. Thanks Chris.  

                      On the cooling issue, at first I thought the cooling could be a problem, but having done several roasts, in Default mode or PID control mode, I have come to the conclusion that the cooling is no longer an issue, yes it could be better, but small price to pay for a great roaster.

                      On the heat limitation issue, click here http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/accessories/genecaferoaster/eodove  that the general consensus seems to be that average is between 5 and 7 minutes to reach 250 deg, for the record my roaster takes 8 min 15 seconds.


                      MZ.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                        " ... average is between 5 and 7 minutes to reach 250 deg"

                        Is that temp taken in the bean mass? Is it possible to vary that time?

                        Just curious ....

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                          An extract from the above link.

                          If your roaster doesnt seem to be heating properly, or you just want to check it, there is a simple test you can perform.  With the Gene Cafe completely cold (at about room temperature) and empty, set the temp at 482º F (250º C) and the time at 15 minutes or more.  Start the roaster and track ( with a timer or stopwatch ) the temperature reading on intervals of no more than a minute and record how long it takes for the roaster to reach 482º F(250º C); note this time when you hear the switch “click” and shut off the heat.

                          With the  GC in its factory default state and assuming that your supply voltage 240 V AC 50 Hz, no you can’t vary the time, to bring it too within the average stated. My roaster takes 8 min 15 sec to reach 250º C. The average stated is one mans view; I have no idea if this view is shared by Genesis!  :-/

                          MZ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                            Thanks MZ, completely clear now. At first I thought it was related to roast
                            profile, but now having read both the GC manual and your most interesting
                            document, I can see that this figure is a measure of heating ability.

                            I actually used a similar idea in my iRoast resistor experiments -- put a TC
                            in the middle of the roasting chamber, set it to 250C, and profiled the
                            result. It was quite a useful predictor of actual behaviour.

                            It will be interesting to hear about results form your GC!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Gene Café with PID Program Control

                              hazbean,

                              Do you have a drying cycle in your profile, if so what are your thoughts. Im getting great results with 150 deg.  

                              MZ

                              Comment

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