What is a Corretto worth?

[zzsstt]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

I have a Gene, and whilst my experience of roasting coffee in any other way is non-existent, it seems to me to do a good job. I have not tried the "Corretto" approach, but it seems to me there are some other factors to consider when comparing them on a price basis:

1/ My Gene gives me control and repeatability, but also I can lift it off its storage shelf and be roasting beans in the time it take me to plug it in and weigh the beans. It would appear to me that unless the Corretto is a permanent fixture it requires some assembling prior to use. When the roast is over (25mins?) the Gene can immediately be put away in the time it takes to unplug it and lift it back to its shelf.

2/ My Gene is covered by a warranty. If a Corretto breaks I imagine the response from the companies involved would include the phrases "not designed for this purpose" and "modification by the user", not to mention "invalidated the warranty". This has the potential to inflate the price of the Corretto somewhat.

3/ I have sufficient confidence in my Gene to believe that I can turn my back on it whilst I answer the phone without it either ruining the roast or self destructing.

4/ I have sufficient confidence in my Gene to believe that I can use it when others are present without the risk that an accidental bump into the bench or lapse in concentration will cause a calamity.

5/ I have confidence that if by any chance the Gene did cause a fire or other damage, my insurance company would simply pay the claim rather than repeat the statements from item 2/ above, adding their own statements involving the phrases "Heath Robinson", "potentially dangerous", "pyromaniac", "common sense" and finally "not covered under this policy".

6/ The Gene looks neat enough that my wife also believes the above and accepts the machine and its use are not a threat to the lives of my children or the house.

Overall, for me, this makes the Genes price premium over a Corretto acceptable.

[Ben_S]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Agree with everything you have said zzsstt.

Would add 2 more:

1. Small footprint in terms of storage (I can hide it away in our cupboards)
2. I can roast inside under our extractor fan.

Where I live in terms of space and ventilation, a coretto would not be practical, although I would have loved to try it because I think that I would have learned a lot.

Ben

[Thundergod]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

ALso dont diasagree with the points youve made zzsstt but want to respond as a corretto user.

1/ My corretto is assembled as a working unit except for my cooling bucket but that takes all of a few seconds to connect.

2/ Warranty not applicable - most correttos I know of are assembled from used beadmakers. Most are probably already outside warranty.

3/ At certain times during my roast I could do the same but your Gene wins on this point for sure.

4/ No one goes near my corretto. >

5/ Not sure - Id check if I were you (just in case)

6/ She trusts me.

Overall, for me, this makes the Genes price premium over a Corretto acceptable.

Its a BIG premium, but horses for courses.
Everyone needs to weigh up there personal requirements and budget and choose accordingly.

[Dennis]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

All good points zzsstt, Ben_S, and TG, though youve all left out one major factor, and that is, the resulting roast!

At the risk of being flamed, and starting another Roast Off, IMHO the Gene is capable of producing a far better roast than the average coretto.

[Ben_S]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Dennis - good point LOL, doing what I do, I always get caught up in the technology rather than the result

[Dimal]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

All good points zzsstt, Ben_S, and TG, though youve all left out one major factor, and that is, the resulting roast!

At the risk of being flamed, and starting another Roast Off, IMHO the Gene is capable of producing a far better roast than the average coretto.

Dennis!..... I am insulted

Dont know that the facts support this assumption mate..... :

Now, if you were referring to a modded HotTop similar to JavaBs 8-), then that proposition might hold some weight. Still not worth the cost difference in my opinion though Den as I enjoy all the fiddling and tactile nature of hands-on Corretto roasting. Would that I could justify the expense of a small commercial roaster..... Gotta have at least one pipe-dream :,

Mal.

[Dennis]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Didnt mean to insult anyone Mal, though knew my remark (and personal opinion) would be contentious. : I understand that people are very happy with their corretto set-ups, and can produce some very good results.

Regarding supportive facts, admitedly, these are all my personal theories.

Ive never seen the gene produce tipped beans or beans with craters though have with the corretto.  Probably, the main problem I have (I have others too) with the corretto is the restriction of airflow.  The heat and air being directed from one end are inconsistent and cant flow through the beans in the same, uniform way as they do through the gene.

I happen to place a lot of importance on this...other may not.

[redzone121]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Lots of very good points made for both Gene and Corretto.
I cannot comment on Gene as I have not used one, but I have done 30 roasts in a Popper/55 Roasts in a Hottop/and now 28 with Corretto.
As a newbie, I cannot tell the difference "taste wise" between Hottop and Corretto, but I am converted on the basis of batch size and great coffee.
Another plus is little or no setup time with Corretto (permanent fixture) and very little cleanup time compared to the Hottop.
No filters to replace $1 per roast either.
I get great feedback from mates and and have ruined the Cafe Coffee experience for many people as Im sure many of you have.

Corretto all the way !! This site Rocks !

Cheers, CB.

[Dimal]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Didnt mean to insult anyone Mal, though knew my remark (and personal opinion) would be contentious. : I understand that people are very happy with their corretto set-ups, and can produce some very good results.

Regarding supportive facts, admitedly, these are all my personal theories.

Ive never seen the gene produce tipped beans or beans with craters though have with the corretto. Probably, the main problem I have (I have others too) with the corretto is the restriction of airflow. The heat and air being directed from one end are inconsistent and cant flow through the beans in the same, uniform way as they do through the gene.

I happen to place a lot of importance on this...other may not.

Once again though Dennis, I think youre confusing an individuals understanding of the process rather than with the type of equipment being used..... I havent experienced the short-comings you mention since my early popper roasting days and certainly not since using a Corretto. I dont believe that this is down to the hardware specifically, more to do with the gaining of knowledge and experience.....

Mal.

[Dennis]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Once again though Dennis, I think youre confusing an individuals understanding of the process rather than with the type of equipment being used..... I havent experienced the short-comings you mention since my early popper roasting days and certainly not since using a Corretto. I dont believe that this is down to the hardware specifically, more to do with the gaining of knowledge and experience.....

Mal.

I respect your comments Mal and to extrapolate, anyone can botch a roast no matter how good the hardware is. I know I have! :-[

Perhaps then there are quite a few individuals who remain confused, and dare I say, naive about the process, thinking all thats required is to apply enough heat to, turn em brown. The outcomes from the recent Roast Offs are an example. In all States, we saw a consistent pattern where beans were darker on the outside than inside. The cuppers in NSW turned up their noses at quite a few offerings where Im sure, the respective contenders had thought to be presenting a great roast.

At the beginning of the event I asked if anyone had taken the time to research the beans and my question was answered with lots of blank faces. Personally, I think it would be an entire fluke to come up with a good recipe without having first understood something about the ingredients.

Clearly, there are many happy and satisfied Corretto users in and outside our CS community. If people are able and willing to take the time to understand the process and the bean, well and good. If not, get a Gene! ;D

[Thundergod]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

I was late to the roast off so missed the question about researching the bean, though up until the roast off I had done 59 roasts totalling almost 30kg of PNG Kimel.
That in itself may count as research as well as discussing PNG beans in general with at least one professional roaster.
I may very well have also given a blank response at the time.

I think I could be missing something here, so someone please spell out for whats so special about the Gene other than it can roast consistently to a pre-programmed profile.

Dont you have to "understand the process and the bean" to program in the right profile?

You said yourself Dennis "anyone can botch a roast no matter how good the hardware is".
That would include the Gene if its programmed wrong.

[Dennis]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Oh boy, what have I started here! ;D

"whats so special about the Gene other than it can roast consistently to a pre-programmed profile" - well, I would think that in itself is pretty special.

Imagine air hitting a bean and the only way the air moves on, is by bouncing off the bean and pretty much back out the way it came. Thats a Corretto.

Now imagine air flowing over a bean like the air that flows over the wing of a plane. Thats a Gene.

So whats the big deal? Well, I cant necessarily prove it without extensive testing in a wind tunnel (Gene owners, feel free to help me out here ;D), but my intuition tells me that the latter will produce both heat and airflow that are more uniform, and hence the roast will be more uniform.

If evidence is required, all I can offer is the design concepts of commercial drum and fluid bed roasters - air in one way and out the other. I would think they follow this practice for good reason.

[Thundergod]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

I dont disagree Dennis that the airflow that you describe seems like a better idea.

Even though the corretto stirs the beans, helped also by the force of the HGs airflow, to give them all a chance at the heat-bath, its not the same, of course.

A point Id like to make though is that weve come a long way from the first roasted beans.
Many different ways were/have been developed.
I dare say the journey has not yet ended and the current practices "followed for good reason" may one day become passé.

It still comes down to doing the best you can with what youve got.
Thats a lot better than having the best equipment currently available if its not used correctly.

[Dimal]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Hmmm,

It would be nice if it was as simple as that Dennis but I dont believe it is. Ive read quite a few posts over the years where Gene owners have sent many a roast into coffee-bean hell because of a lack of understanding of the processes involved. Sure, you show or explain to that person what the basics of the process is and how to control the roast, not the other way around, and they will be able to produce quite acceptable quality roasts on a reasonably consistent basis. The Corretto is much more hands-on as far as mechanics are concerned but I have yet to produce a roast where a single bean hasnt been roasted uniformly all the way through.

Air is a very decent medium for moving heat from one place to another place, thats why commercial style roasters use it and with the capability to control the rate of flow coupled with direct heat on to the rotating drum, the control profiles available are infinite. I believe so long as you have a means of ensuring that the beans are being thoroughly mixed and agitated, the fact that a heatgun is the heat source does not matter one way or the other. Ive even managed to produce surprisingly interesting and enjoyable roasts via the use of a modified propane burner directed into the bowl in much the same way as the heatgun; this needs some additional modification though before Im willing to retire the heatgun altogether.

Yep, youve GOT to research the beans you have and determine how to tailor the profile to help extract the best the bean has to offer, just shooting in the dark otherwise. If I didnt follow the usual course of home-roasters and start off with poppers, then modified poppers, then various (home built) electronic controllers and ultimately the Corretto, I wouldnt even be a home-roaster as I would never shell out $700-1,000 for a factory made unit. Id build my own version of a Gothot Sample Roaster before ever considering to go down that path.... but thats just me. I need to be able to roast up to a Kilo of green per batch and there is nothing currently on the market that would allow me to do that, short of a 1-2Kg Commercial Roaster and we all know how much they cost to buy :.

Mal.

[Dennis]

Re: What is a Corretto worth?

Agree with you TG and Mal - we have come a long way, and the journey is never ending.