300g in a Hottop

[Sink_cut]

I know its possible with some setting changes, but is there any downside? like uneveness or taste differences?

Can anyone comment?


I am just finding 250g dissapears to fast! at 20g per shot that leaves 10 shots after moisture loss... a shot here and there to dial in the grind and there is not much left!


david

[Randy_G.]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

It will lengthen the roast. How much longer depends on the model, line voltage, etc. The best answer is in your mouth, mate! Try it and see if you can tell the difference. FWIW, I have been doing 300 gram Hottop roasts for years. In the KN-8828B I add the beans at about 250 F and the roast takes about 13-14 minutes or so.

[gregpullman]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

Most of my roasts are 300g these days. The only potential downside is that due to bean expansion towards the end of the roast the beans are closer to the element than with 250g. Since there will be more direct heat from the elements onto the beans rather than heat being transferred to the beans via drum and atmosphere, theres more potential to scorch beans or produce tipping. I say potential because Ive not noticed any evidence of either of these in my 300g roasts. I really only do 250g roasts now to check or fine-tune the settings we give to roaster customers, or if the bean is known to roast quite unevenly or if its ungraded and bean size is all over the place.

Obviously with 300g you need to adjust the power settings a bit but its got plenty of heat to complete a roast in the same time as 250g (I drop from 100% down to 80% rather than 70% around 140C, and 50% rather than 40% later in the roast). Powerwise I expect it should handle 400g quite easily with an experienced operator and the right choice of bean, but the cooling tray is getting pretty full with 300g (255g roasted) and Im not sure how far I could stretch that friendship! ;D

Greg

[Sink_cut]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

I had a go at it and dropped the roast 30 seconds past the start of Rollng SC at 20:30. This is about normal for me. I have noticed that there is some variation in beans colour , more so than my 250gm roasts..... possibly also because it is my first roast with a batch of Limu grade 2 (not sure if it is the same as the beans that came with the roaster).

another thing I noticed is that FC(203) and RSC(214) seemed to happen 5-6c hotter than usual. Maybe the variation between environmental and actual temp is different with the larger batch size....

another thing... my moisture loss generally seems a bit high, I usually lose around 18%... will a shorter roast (to the same stage) lose less moisture?

[gregpullman]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

I had a go at it  and dropped the roast 30 seconds past the start of Rollng SC at 20:30. This is about normal for me. I have noticed that there is some variation in beans colour , more so than my 250gm roasts..... possibly also because it is my first roast with a batch of Limu  grade 2 (not sure if it is the same as the beans that came with the roaster).

Beans from different batches may perform differently. The Limu supplied with the roaster is an estate coffee which may roast more evenly than a non-estate coffee (where there can be more variation between beans). Get a kilo or so of beans from the same batch and experiment with those - changing beans introduces a big variable you dont need in an experimental stage.

another thing I noticed is that FC(203) and RSC(214) seemed to happen 5-6c hotter than usual. Maybe the variation between environmental and actual temp is different with the larger batch size....

The environmental sensor is normally about half out of the bean mass, so when there are more beans in the drum the sensor will be more covered and probably give a more accurate reflection of bean temperature. I cant say Ive noticed that in my own roasts but bean size will affect that somewhat.

another thing... my moisture loss generally seems a bit high, I usually lose around 18%... will a shorter roast (to the same stage) lose less moisture?

Im not certain about the moisture loss - I would have thought that the longer the roast, the darker the bean and the lower the moisture content. As such a shorter roast (all other things being equal) would give less moisture loss, but if youre talking about roasting to the same stage that should imply the same roast length, not a shorter roast? If youre meaning same roast depth achieved in a shorter time by having a lower bean capacity, possibly but I think the roast depth is more a factor than the time taken to achieve it (Ill defer to the experience of the pros here however).


I should have added to the comments in my previous post that larger batch roasts may not be as advisable with physically larger beans. I did 300g of peaberry last night and it looked like a 250g batch for the amount of space it took up in the roaster. Conversely, 300g of a larger bean like last years Monsooned Malabar or a AA may end up getting too close to the element and roast unevenly.

I guess the moral of the story is, the nominal capacity of Hottops is 250g so you should be able to roast 250g of anything. Like most rules, if you know why theyre there and the principle behind the rule, you can often see under what conditions you can push beyond that limit (or break those rules) and what effects this may cause.

Greg

[Sammus]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

Ill throw in my $0.02 - and  that is I like doing 250g batches the speed at which they disappear means I get more of a chance to vary my roasting technique to observe changes in the cup - I guess having plenty of time on my hands and always wanting to roast more than I can drink is a factor here. But most importantly (to me): I generally have to buy beans in 2.5kg increments, so with 300g batches Id need to buy 7.5kg at a time to be able to split it up evenly! :P

[wherealien]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

i like to run over 300g in my hottop so i get around 250g roasted. i did find that with certain beans what would happen is that i would run out of time for the roast even when extending the time to the allowable maximum. the beans sometimes would dump before second crack. what i do now is drop my beans in a few mins before the hottop beeps telling me its ready around 55c seems to work.. it seems to beep around 65c telling me its up to temp and to insert beans..

one day ill buy a P or B board for it and hopefully not have to use my workaround as I will have more control.

cheers
Ian

[gregpullman]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

Minor update here. Ive tried pushing the boundaries at each end to see how the Hottop handled it. On the low end I roasted 150g of Yirg in response to a customer enquiry, and on the high end I did 350g of Brazil Daterra Peaberry as a follow-on to this discussion. Both roasts came out very well, typical of a regular capacity Hottop roast - even and with very minimal tipping. Ill be trying to get closer to 400g but I think a Peaberry is essential for this as even with 350g it was spilling over the centre axle of the drum by the time the beans expanded near the end of the roast, however since the element is only on low at that time its unlikely to scorch the beans. Both roasts were done with the Hottop B as it allows finer heater control than the P, which is essential for the fine-tuning necessary in this sort of experimentation.

Greg

[T.D.]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

Thats an interesting experiment Greg. How much did the roast settings change for the large and small roasts. I have a bunch of PNG peaberry so might be a good excuse to try a big roast with them. Cant wait to receive the hot top, very excited!

[gregpullman]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

Youve done well to get it at the price you did! Settings were quite different TD; my standard recipe for a 250g roast is 100% power and no fan to about 140C, then drop back to 70% and 1/4 fan until about 165, 70% and 1/2 fan until about 180, 40% and 3/4 fan until about 192 (around FC) and then 40% and full fan from there on. Others work on different recipes but that works for me - you could try 80% power until about 155 for example. Naturally these figures will vary from region to region, from power supply to power supply and from unit to unit, but theyre what I initially aim for and then fine-tune it as the roast progresses to compensate for the variables.

With the 150g roast it was a fair bit of making it up as I went and it wasnt as smooth as I would have liked but if I was to do it again Id have a much better idea of what to do. This is from memory so take the figures with a grain of salt. IIRC I started at 100% but dropped back to 80% around 110, then dropped it back to 60%, then 50% around 165 (temp was still climbing too fast). Around 175 it was still climbing a bit quicker than I wanted so wound back to 30% (Id never gone that low before) but the roast stalled about 182, so I went back up to about 80% to recover it and once it had started rising again I went back to 40% which took it through smoothly to the end. Fan speeds were roughly unchanged.

If I was to do it again Id try to start at 70% (to lessen the chance of tipping, not that there was any but there was no need for that much power that early as it just created a beast I then had to contain), then drop back to 50% around 140C and 1/4 fan, 1/2 fan around 165, 40% power and 3/4 fan around 180C and full fan around 195 (slightly higher full fan point as the lower bean volume will translate to less runaway as the roast approaches the end). However as I mentioned above, your own settings may need to be different to mine (or what I might suggest) but theyll at least give you somewhere to start.

A classic trap for young players (er, Hottop B owners) is to panic and try to rush changes in too quickly before the last one has taken effect. You can safely assume with anything you do on the control panel that youll need to wait at least two minutes before you have enough data to get some idea of the longer-term effect. As you build your experience you can predict what changes you need to make for what end result.

Good luck!

Greg

[T.D.]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

Thanks again for the awesome deal and great service Greg. Im sure youll also be pleased to see that the AUD has recovered a little in the last week or so.

Thanks for the info on the different roast settings. Ill have to start taking some notes in anticipation of receiving my new baby! 8-)

[yoma]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

... my standard recipe for a 250g roast is 100% power and no fan to about 140C, then drop back to 70% and 1/4 fan until about 165, 70% and 1/2 fan until about 180, 40% and 3/4 fan until about 192 (around FC) and then 40% and full fan from there on...

What effect does the fan have on a roast?
I generally never use the fan other than to cool down the unit after a roast.
On one occasion, I measured the temp. changes caused by the fan via my on T.Cs in the bean mass.
It uped the temperature (more O2?).
Thanks
-yoma

[gregpullman]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

Its mainly there to get rid of the smoke but it obviously gets rid of some heat at the same time. If youre upping the fan towards the end of the roast you may see a temp increase as the beans dry out / go exothermic.

[gregpullman]

400g in a Hottop!

On another note, why stop at 300?! Removing my Things Coffee warranty honourer hat and donning my traditional experimenters hat, after doing 350g of Peaberry a couple of weeks ago I decided to be silly and try 400g of Indian Tiger Mountain, which is an A size bean, so nothing like a Peaberry!

As you can see it sure was a pretty full drum, the beans were really backing up on the right side of the drum, beans were more likely to get pushed into spots they normally wouldnt end up (such as at the top of the drum support) and it was harder for chaff to escape. I ended up maintaining 60% power to the end of the roast, which ended up taking about 23 minutes. It could have been quicker if Id kept the power higher for longer. I expected the cooling tray to overflow and it got close, a few escaped but it still managed to contain them all which is a surprisingly good result.

The roasted beans were fairly good - a little more tipping and divots than usual, probably due to the beans being that much closer to the element, and a slightly more uneven roast, but overall not as bad as could be expected. Of course, as a supplier of Hottop roasters we wouldnt formally recommend roasting such a large volume as this, it may void warranties and cause your car tyres to burst, but from an experimenters point of view it shows 400g of a large bean is entirely possible in a Hottop, even if the results arent quite as even as can be achieved with the more recommended volumes.

500g here we come!

Greg0g

[yoma]

Re: 300g in a Hottop

If youre upping the fan towards the end of the roast you may see a temp increase as the beans dry out / go exothermic.

Spot on!  I measured the fan effect near the end of a roast.