Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

[stuartgrant]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

Commissioning a roaster can take upwards of 6-8 weeks from install to approval.

Ouch. Thats a frightening figure... given that Ive been hired as the roaster and have very little work to do until were up and going!

On the other hand, many other Diedrich owners have vouched for the job done by the Australian supplier in liaising with the local type B gas fitter ahead of time - sending detailed info on the roaster etc. so that the approval time can be as short as possible. I hope ours is super quick.

Getting back on topic, were only receiving that support since we bought the roaster new, but I still think the local supplier (if there is one) would be a good point of contact for asking questions about red tape etc.

Cheers
Stuart.

[ccc2]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

NG or LPG does not matter - its whether the appliance has an existing AGA approval number (very few commercial roasters do) and if it fits within the range required for Type B - anything with an input in excess of 10MJ/H (which is most roasters from 2kg upwards).

LPG installations can require special storage requirements for fuel.

The fuel type (natural or propane) does not specifically have advantages when it comes to roasting - it depend on the design of your roaster and what sort of burner is being matched to it.

If you have a large roaster and its fed from a small burner, or the pressure is insufficient, or the burner jets are not tuned properly, then its going to perform poorly, regardless of whether its fed from one type of gas over another.

Quality burners can run very efficiently on low pressures.

If its LPG or Natural Gas, you still need to answer all the questions relating to Purge times, chamber volume, purge volume (e.g. you need the roaster to perform at least 5 volume sweeps on failed pilot or flamerod failure), safe starting rates, dilution and relief rates.

The answers to these are not always available from Roaster manufacturers and its the testing performed by the Type B Gasfitter that ends up costing quite a bit of time and money.

Commissioning a roaster can take upwards of 6-8 weeks from install to approval.

[stuartgrant]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

I think someone is pulling your chain there.

Well... its probably more that Ive misinterpreted what I heard!

We definitely have to have our set up certified by a Type B gas fitter, but its apparently not going to be as gruelling a process as we were initially lead to believe - and thats because we chose natural gas. NG has its disadvantages, too, Ive heard.

Cheers
Stuart.

[ccc2]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

And just to add to Andys comments.

Some councils will make you build an enclosure around your roaster to comply with Food Safety requirement - dont underestimate the $20-$40K it might cost.

Type B compliance can cost up to $10K as the submission requires very detailed information on various aspects such as purge rates for the pilot assembly and modifications for "proving switches" relating to gas, heat and electrical safety that are not fitted on most new roasters when they leave the manufacturers factory, e.g. most roaster brands arrive from the factory and do not comply 100% with Australian regulations.

For an existing site, you may need to have airflow changes made (openings, forced, exhaust, etc.) and depending upon the installation, your flue arrangement could cost up towards $5 - $10K.

Dont be surprised if you spend just as much money on installation and commissioning as you do on the roaster.

[Andy]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

The reglations vary according to state but also local council, which makes it really hard to give you any useful info!

Agree! ...and seeing that Steven didnt mention his location all I can add is some generic pointers.

Australian standards (none of which has been assessed yet, so were yet to see if it was just marketing spin!)

Type B gas devices are covered by state based legisation and national standards.

For example, ours is configured to natural gas, which runs at a much lower pressure (I think?), and so were exempt from several of the more stringent gas safety checks

I think someone is pulling your chain there. The only real difference is the size of the jet that the gas comes out of, with natural gas its a bigger hole because its at a lower pressure (about half) but both natural gas and LPG devices have to meet pretty much the same standards. (both can blow you up!!!)

If your roaster has AGA (Australian Gas Association) Type A certification then it is a simple process but typicaly you will only see that on a BBQ, kitchen stove or similar high volume item.

Every small gas coffee roaster that I have seen is a type B appliance.

http://www.docep.wa.gov.au/energysafety/Content/Regulation/Appliance_and_equipment_approval/Gas_appliances.html

http://www.wst.tas.gov.au/industries/gas/gas_standards/gas_appliances_type_b

In Victoria the approval of the Type B installation is done through Energy Safe Victoria (ESV) by a registered Type B plumber (trust me, you will get to know this plumber very well and help put his kids through private school)

ESV have a lot of documentation including some to do with the flame safeguard requirements on:
http://www.esv.vic.gov.au/ForGasProfessionals/TechnicalinfosheetsforGasFitters/Guidesanddatasheets/TypeBAppliancesandComplexGasInstallations/tabid/352/Default.aspx

Also the type B plumber will have to drill holes in your flue to take air quality readings that will be included in the ESV submission along with an electrical schematic and gas fitters report.

Victoria has some of the toughest standards in the country but all states are a moving target as the requirements change quickly and often.
...and then there are the council hoops.

Talk to your council first, talk to your potential neighbours, landlord, type B gas dude and your business insurance broker. All parties have to be in agreement before you can start working safely and within the rules/guidelines/standards.

Good luck with your journey!

[stuartgrant]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

Hi Steven,

I just got work at a new roastery and were going through the process of working out what red-tape we need to abide by and how its enforced etc. at the moment.

The reglations vary according to state but also local council, which makes it really hard to give you any useful info!

We bought a Diedrich, and the importer said that they handle a lot of the tricky stuff in terms of importation and manufacturing to Australian standards (none of which has been assessed yet, so were yet to see if it was just marketing spin!), but things like OH&S and gas safety really come down to either: i) your local council regulations, or ii) who inspects your premises (ie. some inspectors are apparently more strict than others!).

Hopefully someone else will respond with some guidelines for you (I havent been involved enough with the process to really help you out there), but ultimately youll need to get local/specific advice based on your location/roaster. [For example, ours is configured to natural gas, which runs at a much lower pressure (I think?), and so were exempt from several of the more stringent gas safety checks...]

Have fun!
Cheers
Stuart.

[Fish2h20]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

I have just spent some time reading the whole subject and must say it has been good living your journey ol goodie goaty!

I hope all has turned out in your favour, i have some different questions to ask now, it seems that regulations etc has only been lightly touched on.

What sort of clearances/regulations must be complied with? Do you have to have your premises inspected etc as you are producing a food stuff?  Is there health regulations and certificates to obtain? Is there disposal regulations of the chaff as that could be considered industrial waste since it is from a business and is all the same not varied as household waste is?  Then there is insurance etc, what if someone got sick from your product?  

These are all hings i have been pondering as i too would like to dabble in the roasting small business but i have been having trouble finding the exact red tape i have to abide by.  For me what type of roaster, business plan, distribution, promotion is the easy part it is the bureaucratic stuff that stumps me, i would hate to fork out all my money just to be shut down because my roasting area didnt comply to something.Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Steven

[Dimal]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

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[thegoodies]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg or 5kg Roaster?

I will be looking at a place this week to see if its suitable for Roaster/Coffee Shop. Not sure that it is but worth a look. (Cant see in the windows due to frosted glass. I have to make sure its got sink and washing facilities.

[TC]

Re: Starting up Business with a 5kg Roaster?

Congrats, the Goodies!

I thought it was about time we made a small edit to your thread title...

Enjoy

2mcm

[thegoodies]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

The Roaster should be here this week. Getting excited. Will keep you all informed when it arrives.

[coffee_mogul]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

Great read, and great advice guys.

Goodies, Im glad you went for the 5kg. I roasted at home (block of 12 townhouses) for 18 months on a 5kg has garanti machine. My neighbour finally complained, but not why you would think.
My wife pruned her tree that was overhanging on our side of the fence, so she complained to the strata about the roaster to pay us back for the tree. It took a while for it to all play out, and no one else really cared, ultimately it was the Flue running through the garage roof (common property in a strata complex) that sealed the deal for us.
There is a lesson in this for you, roast at home as long as you can, until some one finally complains, it may never even get to that.
I was considerate to my neighbours, and roasted late at night, made sure they didnt have clothes on the line, etc. This will give you some time to learn your craft, with out the pressure of rent, etc, its also a great opportunity to get your family involved.

Keep us posted on the progress.

Wayne.

[thegoodies]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

Had some delays but now back on track. Payment in next couple of days transport the following week should be in Perth in a couple of weeks. Not long now.

[pie_in_ear]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

The Goodies, what is the progress? Do you have the roaster yet?

As for sample roasters, Sweet Marias have some good (cheapish) sample roasters at a better price and performance than anything locally available.

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Starting up Business with a 2kg Roaster?

Unfortunately it is unable to do a roast in its current location.

Goodies
I am willing to check the roaster out for you as I reside in Brisbane as long as its not on the outskirts
What suburb is it currently stored

PM if you want to keep private
KK