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  • Getting the feel for the Corretto

    Hi all,

    Ive just got all setup and rewired the bread machine and roasted 2 batches of 150g Brazil Cerrado. Coming from a drum roaster things are a bit different. Mainly I didnt hear first and second crack really pick up into rolling, I only seemed to hear a few of the loudest cracks. Is that normal over the bread machine motor and heat gun blower?

    I dont have a thermocouple and DMM yet, but I plan to get one when they come in stock here. Question is, until then Im wondering how I get a feel for more when things happen. Maybe I should keep the tip of the heat gun constant after the drying phase just to see what sort of profile Id achieve with that and then modify from there. How far away should the heat gun be when ramping up to first crack? Where should it be aimed? Ive been keeping it maybe 2-3cm from the top and angled to hit the beans and side of the bowl equally.

    I was also thinking afterwards that my 150g might be a bit too low? Whats the minimum roast size people do in these?

    Ill report back after Ive tasted these batches.

    I thought I read quite a bit before starting, but now afterwards so many questions. Sorry if they are repeats.

    Thanks!

  • #2
    Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

    Welcome Droshi.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Regarding an "ideal" batch size... This seems to be quite variable but a rough rule of thumb seems to indicate that starting at between 50-60% by weight of the largest loaf size that the BM was rated for, will be close to the money. 150g will more than likely be quite light on from my personal experience.

    Ill let others answer your additional questions...

    Mal.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

      Batch size will depend on the BM.
      Which one do you have?

      Which heatgun?
      What temp settings does it have?

      I started doing 300g batches and then moved up to 600g.
      I now find 600g batches easier to control and 700 is the limit on my BM anyway.

      I point the gun at the furthest corner from my temp probe about where the beans meet the bowl.
      The force of the air pushes them down a bit and I think this helps mix the outside beans a little while the ones closer to the middle are being stirred by the paddle.
      It also seems to keep the odd stray bean from escaping over the top towards the end of the roast if you aim in the right spot.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

        Hi Droshi, I have a Breville with rectangular bucket and I started doing 300g batches but have found as TG above has said that 600g is the optimum batch size for my setup, I tried 800g but it was a tad uneven, 600g gives you 500g of roasted beans which fit nicely into the 500g zip-lock bag or 2x250g bags.
        Ive found some beans have a very quiet first crack, a good indicator is watching the colour of your beans and getting close to first crack the smoke is a good sign you are almost there, same with second crack the smoke usually increases close to 2C plus most beans are quite audible, the DMM will make life a lot easier and give you control over your roasts. I start with the gun 3cm from top of the bucket and adjust it as the roast progresses aiming the gun into the corner of the bucket, the heat probe is located 2/3 the way up the bean mass. I reach 1c around 200C and 2c around 216-220C.
        Enjoy your roasting

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

          Sorry for the lack of info. My breadmaker is an old Regal model #K6728CE and heat gun is a newer Bosch PHG-600-3 (I believe it has heat settings of 50C, 400C and 600C according to manual with increase in airflow amounts as well).

          First roast I attempted to vary the heat by switching between the two highest settings, 2nd roast I moved the tip further away to make it cooler and left it on the highest setting.

          How close do you think I should have the tip? All the way inside the bowl? Maybe a cover as well? The main reason is because 1st crack didnt seem to be all that pronounced, in other words I only heard a few beans crack and it never really progressed into what I would call rolling crack unless most of the beans werent that loud and only a couple were.

          Maybe higher batch sizes would solve my problems and once first crack hits the heat released would help even out temp and start other beans cracking. I would much prefer the smallest batch size and to just roast multiple times. That way I can try many different profiles without causing caffeine trauma.

          I tasted both coffees this evening and they do taste good, and is mostly what I would expect from a Brazil. Not much high notes, but good body and great chocolate flavors. Ill try to keep a sample of each around to taste each day and see how it progresses. Still I think with a couple tweaks to my process I could really get more out of them.

          Of course with the acquisition of a multimeter most of this guesswork will become non-existent I would imagine.

          Thanks for all the tips!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

            Originally posted by 455047474C4F434C220 link=1244212833/3#3 date=1244240848
            Hi Droshi, I have a Breville with rectangular bucket and I started doing 300g batches but have found as TG above has said  that 600g is the optimum batch size for my setup, I tried 800g but it was a tad uneven, 600g gives you 500g of roasted beans which fit nicely into the 500g zip-lock bag or 2x250g bags.
            Ive found some beans have a very quiet first crack, a good indicator is watching the colour of your beans and getting close to first crack the smoke is a good sign you are almost there, same with second crack the smoke usually increases close to 2C plus most beans are quite audible, the DMM will make life a lot easier and give you control over your roasts. I start with the gun 3cm from top of the bucket and adjust it as the roast progresses aiming the gun into the corner of the bucket, the heat probe is located 2/3 the way up the bean mass. I reach 1c around 200C and 2c around 216-220C.
            Enjoy your roasting
            Thanks! This answered some of my above questions too. And seems to confirm that my roasting batch size is quite too small. I suppose it makes sense unless I have a way to enclose the unit much more with a lid or something.

            Ive seen a picture of someone that cut the window out of the lid on their bread machine and stuck the heatgun tip in insulated with aluminum foil. Any ideas there? Seems like a bad idea, but maybe by pulling it out every now and then and with a DMM might not be.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

              Originally posted by 24120F130809600 link=1244212833/5#5 date=1244241486
              Ive seen a picture of someone that cut the window out of the lid on their bread machine and stuck the heatgun tip in insulated with aluminum foil. Any ideas there?
              You dont have to cut it out on most BMs...when I first was setting up my corretto, I simply unscrewed the bottom of the lid from the top of the lid and slid out the glass window, and did it back up again (I had seen the heat gun through the window trick previously too).

              HOWEVER, I also think it is a bad idea...I have never been game enough to try it...cant help but think I will start melting plastic somewhere along the line. So although the window is removed, I havent ever used it this way.

              I, like others above, have a Breville with rectangular pan and always roast between 500 and 600g. This always works a treat for me with the BM open. I began experimenting with using a foil pie tray weighed down with a rock to partially cover the pan...but then realised this is just having to learn my roasting all over again when I already get great results so have reverted to simply using the open pan method.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                I tried the removal of the window in the lid and yes the surrounding plastic started to melt with the heat.
                I ended up covering the pan with a peice of wood so now that only about 1/3 of the pan is open, i get much better consistancy and can use a lower heat on the heat gun.

                Mal

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                  Originally posted by 212C2F21430 link=1244212833/7#7 date=1244257471
                  I ended up covering the pan with a peice of wood so now that only about 1/3 of the pan is open, i get much better consistancy and can use a lower heat on the heat gun.
                  Hmmmm...maybe I should persist with relearning my roasting with a partial lid on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                    Once you get a thermocouple monitoring the bean mass life will become easier!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                      I might try just tossing a thermocouple into the beans from the top and wiring it up to a DMM without temp readout. Just measuring resistance and using a conversion table should at least be better until the real datalogger gets here.

                      I feel there would be some benefit to a cover as well, but would probably need the DMM to make sure I dont overheat everything.

                      Im somewhat hesitant to bump up to 600g batches as thats a lot of coffee to mess up in one roast.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                        Originally posted by 54627F637879100 link=1244212833/10#10 date=1244287290
                        Im somewhat hesitant to bump up to 600g batches as thats a lot of coffee to mess up in one roast.
                        Try 300g then.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                          Originally posted by 0F332E353F3E293C343F5B0 link=1244212833/11#11 date=1244301696
                          Try 300g then.
                          Yep, tried 300g today, but I feel like Im shooting in the dark. Probably still better than nothing, but the roast was much longer than I feel like it should be.

                          I shoot for a ~3m drying phase, then somewhat rapidly try to ramp up to 1C. Backoff the heat gun to try to aim for a ~5m rest to 2nd crack.

                          Unfortunately without temp measurements and without being able to hear the cracks very well I cant do a whole lot else. To me it sounds as if not all the beans actually crack like Im used to hearing in the drum roaster...they all must, but I guess some are just quieter and cant be heard over the heat gun fan and beans stirring noises.

                          Ill report back again once I setup my makeshift DMM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                            Maybe try drying them for a shorter period.
                            Say 2 minutes.
                            My understanding ids that the FC is the steam explosively escaping.
                            If youve dried the beans too much initially, they may not crack.
                            (Someone else please comment on this theory.)

                            Working without temp guidance is more difficult, but I did it when first moving up to a corretto and recently going back to a bowl.
                            Its not impossible though.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Getting the feel for the Corretto

                              Originally posted by 0F332E353F3E293C343F5B0 link=1244212833/13#13 date=1244334599
                              (Someone else please comment on this theory.)
                              Cant offer anything definitive, TG, but I have noticed that slower ramps to ~100C (ie. longer drying phases) tend to give a quieter first crack at a higher temperature in one experiment we did with Peru Ceja de Selva.

                              Secondly, before we had a thermocouple set up we had a few super slow ramps to first crack which resulted in little to no actual cracks.

                              As I said, nothing definitive, but both those observations back up what you theorised above...

                              Cheers
                              Stuart.

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