My new KKTO - learning to use it!

[WSullivan]

This will be a thread to follow how i eventually achieve the perfect roast profile(feel free to chuck in any ideas you have)

This is roughly my journey to this point, its been a fairly long one, ive been wanting to put one of these together for quite some time, well ever since KK started that darn thread!, getting the pieces together at the lowest possible price was a priority aswell(post buying GPP and grinder), and the fact i was obtaining great results on the corretto, so there was no real rush.


First item on the list was the Turbo oven itself, looked around for some time, evilbay, department stores etc, on the advice of AM picked up the Cookwell on sale at Homeart for $69!


Then the search for the pasta set began, this was quite a mission, i didnt want to pay $50 min for a brand new set, mainly because i couldnt(or my missus)bare the thought of cutting into a brand new piece of cooking apparel, as we are both cooking mad, finally stumbled upon a second hand Avanti set for $25, near new!

Picked up KKs adaptor ring that mates the TO with the pasta set, you cant make anything that does the job as well as this piece of kit.......i tried..........FAIL........lol. All the info on KKs perpose built accyss can be found here:
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1228631426/269#269


Then came the cooling solution, after designing, scrapping, and trying again and again, i ended up settling on a cooling solution simular to the one Knowledgethirst came up with a while ago, post located here,
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1254874010
where a vacuum sucked the beans out of the chamber and into a cooling tray inside a bucket, i havent constructed mine yet but basically its a simular design but utilising a S/S pot and 2 S/S bowls for the catchment and cooling of beans siting on a guaze matt inside the bowls, pics to follow......


So the next on the ajenda was the motor, i replaced the power window system in the jeep and thought........hmmmm, grabbed a battery charge transformer and hooked up the motor, b-e-autiful!, 70 RPM and strong!,

Next to come, somewhere to mount it, grabbed an old school type desk from work as they no longer required it, and it had the one shelf under the desk to mount the motor on, perfect!

So i just had to come up with a linkage and stirrer option, ended up lightly tapping a 13mm socket onto the motor and attaching a 1/2 in drive uni joint and 4 in extention bar which extended through the hole in the outer pot and then just poking the female end about 1/2 mm above the surface of the inner basket(strainer), from there i simply utilised a 1/2 inch male connector with some nail strap roughly bent into a paddle type arrangement as a prototype, held together with a solid brass nut and bolt, worked well ;D!.


So it was all together and ready to go, i chucked it 600gms for a dry run, agitation was spot on straight off, tried 300gms.....no good, threw in another 500 gms totaling 800gm, no worries at all, agitation was great with all beans moving around and being picked up and dropped to the bottom of the basket, so moving around and top to bottom so to speak, took out 300g for the first run(didnt want to push too hard on first go) set the TO on 250C and turned on the agitator. The advice of KK was spot on, internal volume is critical to temp, unfortunately the liner KK made does not fit the Avanti Pasta set, so i was working with the full volume of the cookset.

First signs of chaffe around 8 mins

First crack(from what i could hear) 18-20 mins

Second Crack 25mins

Result........to slow IMHO, some serious divots, in some cases all the way through the bean, smells good at a roast into RSC about CS9, unknown temp

Overall, very happy with the first roast, a bit of sealing, insulation and a false floor, should be all good for a decent temp climb profile.....then to work on the FC to SC climb of 2-3C/min.

A very robust roaster in my opinion, and i cant wait to get home today to work on it more!

Thanks to all the info ive received about building this KKTO, get into it guys, this is serious fun! ;D

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

You beauty
I did countless of dry runs to make sure the agitation was mixing the beans properly

I also found that if the agitation was to slow it restricts the size of the roast batches
But your 70 rpm motor is a good speed

Insulation will also allow you to roast larger batches

Once the roaster is seasoned it will also perform better

How is the chaff separation performing, is most of it going to the outer pot chamber

KK

[WSullivan]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

I also found that if the agitation was to slow it restricts the size of the roast batches
But your 70 rpm motor is a good speed

total fluke!

Insulation will also allow you to roast larger batches

No. 1 on my list now

How is the chaff separation performing, is most of it going to the outer pot chamber

90% is escaping into the bottom of the roaster, drilled 5mm holes every 8 cm or so around the top, gunna make them slightly bigger around the top well above the bean mass, and make some new ones closer to the bean mass, not too big to allow even the smaller beans escape, i want to try and adapt the liner to work somehow.......ill have a closer look when i get home

Thanks KK

warren

[WSullivan]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Oh and KK whats your advice on placement of the TC probe? Thinking of cutting the paddle at a certain point to allow the TC to sit, bit worried about jaming up though........what was the purpose of the bent TC Probe you were toying with?

cheers
warren

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Oh and KK whats your advice on placement of the TC probe? Thinking of cutting the paddle at a certain point to allow the TC to sit, bit worried about jaming up though........what was the purpose of the bent TC Probe you were toying with?

cheers
warren

The bent probe is one option & the wire can also be used

Drill a hole on the exposed rise of the insert, bend probe slightly at appropriate spot have a small permanent clip at the depth required

See drawing

KK

[WSullivan]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

sorry if im missing something , but wouldnt the cable melt? TC or probe?

[WSullivan]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

I was thinking something like this........cutout on agitator, bent probe sitting on floor of the basket???

[A_M]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

I was thinking something like this........cutout on agitator, bent probe sitting on floor of the basket???

Tis basicly what I do... But my probe sits in the top 10% when it starts off as green and is usually about 1/3 down when they have been roasted and brown...

Thus when green I get an idea of the AIR temp and by watching / managing that, I then do not over heat too quickly = No tipping

In addition towards the end... As the probe is nicely in the bean mass it gives me a truer reading of the actual temp of the beans..

Probe protrudes about 40 - 50 mm in from the side.

NOTE: REMOVE prober before trying to remove the pot.

[WSullivan]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Thanks AM, Sounds like a plan to me, could you give me the exact dimensions of your chamber AM, just want to check the vol of mine to yours, ive got KKs but his TO is Tiffany, thought id compare horses with horses,

Love the idea of teh Air temp Monitor too, i "may" use a second TC for that, ive got another DMM and probe lying around here somewhere.....

How did you go with your cooling plans too, i know you were thinking of converting to the vac suck thing too 8-)

cheers
warren

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

In the roaster I am currently using the probe is placed in from the side as you have described

My agitator is shaped to accommodate it (see photo)

The other option is to have it coming up from the bottom

KK

[WSullivan]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Ok firstly please allow me to declare my love of KK ;D

Did a little experimenting last night with the KKTO, the problem was, too much volume in the roasting chamber, the liner KK designed didnt fit my pot......but i made it fit, basically sitting it in the pot on little legs, with a nice tightish hole for the linkage to poke through.

Next was the probe, i ended up drilling through the side and angling the hole so the probe sits on the floor of the inner basket right along the edge, its not even affected by the paddle! it sticks in about 4 cm too.

So with the liner and probe in place, CS DMM and Laptop running the CS Roastmonitor Software, i did a little test of the TO, (pic below) first i tested the "Thaw" function, as you can see the thaw function floats around the 50C mark and i imagine with time and contributing thermal mass, the curve would settle into quite a tight hold at 50 odd C, i then turned the dial to 200C to just get an idea at how accurate the Tstat is in the TO, it turned off at around 220C :-?, then to 250C on the TO, turned off at around 280C :-?

This didnt worry me at all as everything was going to change when beans went in, it was just an experiment, getting to know my roaster

I then let it cool down a little to about 80C, and chucked in 600gm of Mexico Decaf, and selected 250C on teh TO, it dropped to 45C before heading north @ 20C/min for about 5 mins then it dropped back to about 10C/min to FC, and between 2-5C/min to SC, got away from me a bit in the end as the pic shows, but i controlled it by releasing some hot air by lifting the TO for a few secs, need to experiment with using the Thermal energy of the roast to coast it to SC.

In conclusion, im very happy with the roaster......very very happy, with no insulation at this stage and a prototype paddle, its already producing great results, with insulation and a perfected paddle, i can see it being much more managable in terms of temp profiles, its tonnes easier to use than the corretto in terms of user input, wind is no longer an issue, even ambient temps are not so much a concern now, im looking forward to see how it operates with insulation, holding that thermal heat a bit longer! Im having a BALL ;D ;D

[oomph]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Hey this is amazing. Congrats!
How will you slow the ramp down towards SC ?
Is the roaster completely controllable throughout the entire temp range?
For instance, if you wanted to ramp to FC in 10 minutes, and then slow ramp so that you got to SC over another 4 or even 5 mins, do you think this little roaster can do it? If so, you have achieved an incredible amout of flexibility. What is the coffee cupping like?
Amazing acheivment, well done.
Carlos.

[WSullivan]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Hey this is amazing. Congrats!

Thanks Carlos!, but its all KKs original design. Cant take credit for that

How will you slow the ramp down towards SC ?

Im thinking, once the insulation is complete, i can simply set a desirable air temp on the TO and the Tstat will do the rest, not enough thermal heat retention at the moment without insulation.

Is the roaster completely controllable throughout the entire temp range?

Not at this stage, the profile you see above is simply flat out on 250C setting, insulation will help this heaps, there is a tonne of heat lost through the walls of the pot.

if you wanted to ramp to FC in 10 minutes, and then slow ramp so that you got to SC over another 4 or even 5 mins, do you think this little roaster can do it?

Yes, it can, KK has mastered it, and i will too, his profiles are great with full control.

What is the coffee cupping like?

Havent cupped anything yet, but the Decaf i roasted last night is superb......but that bean always is, it seems to be indestructible ;D

This thread is my journey to achieve the perfect profile control, so stay tuned, thanks for the great feedback though!

cheers
warren

[Dimal]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Very impressive Warren.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

And it demonstrates just how much potential there is in the KKTO system. Cant wait to get my Kit from KK and join in on the fun.... 8-)

Mal.

[A_M]

Re: My new KKTO - learning to use it!

Very impressive Warren.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

And it demonstrates just how much potential there is in the KKTO system. Cant wait to get my Kit from KK and join in on the fun.... 8-)

Mal.

Sully needs to drop around next roasting time..

Did another 800g last night. 5 min warm-up.. aprox 13 to FC and then about another 5 to SC... Cool in about 2.5 min and bagged 30Sec after that..

No mess no de chafing etc etc..

I use a meat probe and go by sight / smell and sound...

Was using a temp probe and logger... But why over complicate things.. For me; roasting is about fresh beans and 30 min away from the home type chores..