FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

[Ol_Grumpy]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Its great to see this thread get a little new life...

But its a pity its not roasters sharing their tales of success or otherwise...

What I love most about this roaster is the principle of getting back to basics. Im a tradesman with over 35 yrs experience and I own/use or have owned just about every electrical tool you care to name/mention. Point is that now I tend to use my hand tools far more and get more done with less wastage/fuss. Yes, thats experience and you cant buy it on the shelf.

This roaster is about as basic as you can get short of a frypan over an open fire. There is so much that can be learnt and enjoyed from using and really listening to what this little baby will speak to you, if you only listen. I dont have one yet so Im not tryn to tell you how to suck eggs... But even Mark has said how this little roaster has shown him beans attributes that get missed in mechanical roasters.

I love to cook, but Im no chef, what I have learnt is to develop a feel for what you are cooking. I own several hot air guns and I know I could cook a steak with a hot-air gun... But would I do it? No way! Heat source is dry and harsh. Think of the bean you are roasting with that hot air gun? That same bean is being caressed in the baby roaster- any wonder it gets more vibrant and less harsh results?

No, I beg to differ. I believe that if you have a little patience and perseverance to really learn and listen to this little roaster that your experience will reward you with results to die for.

So, to all the other baby- roasters out there please kick the thread off again with your experiences at roasting. It is extremely re-assuring to all of us to hear how things are going from those that know....

Roast on,
Andrew

[sidewayss]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

These things are great. I still have mine after a year and still using it, especially for single origins.

Good learning tool even for newbies.

It makes a great coffee collectors display in the house to boast to friends.

You will fumble your way through it a few times, but it certainly makes you think about what youre doing right or differently, and makes you learn some more.

Ive lent mine to someone, and i havent got it back yet, after 2 months

+1 get in contact with Coffeeroasters.

Gary at G

[t0fu]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

You guys reccomending the iroast or the popper are crazy.

I went from this baby roaster to an iroast and its far easier to get a good batch out of the drum roaster than one of those consumer toys. All you need is a timer, some gas, a nose to smell where your beans are at, 2 ears to listen to the pop and a sample of what you are roasting.

Whereas those entry level toys are so inconsistent with their roasts and athsmatic little hairdryer fans, i dont even bother trying to set a profile or remember anything about them. And they cant even roast more than 1 batch in a row. Doesnt look right? TOO BAD, try again in an hour or so or you risk burning the thing out. And you have to wait a few days to taste if the roast is good? No thanks.

With the baby roaster its easy to learn from your roasting experience cos you can hear it (it doesnt deafen you either) and smell it, and taste it immediately after. And if its shit you just try again right away.

Anyways my baby roaster is black now and the wood on the lid has fallen off but it still works brilliantly.

Maybe in a few years I will get a more serious roaster like a corretto or a hottop but im gonna skip anymore toys in between.

[>CoffeeRoasters]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

I am a strong believer of keepings things simple. For some reason there is a tendancy to overcomplicate things when it comes to coffee. The market seems to want to analyse the crap out of the roasting process when at the end of the day the green coffee really holds the key for the roaster. Like any form of cooking the majority of the emphasis should be placed on the selection of the ingrediants. As a roaster you want to maximise the potential for flavour and character of the the coffee whilst using your skill to balance the end result.

In other words you want to do the coffee justice. The amount of effort that has gone into the cultivating and processing of that bean is going to have the biggest influence on the result you are likely to get. Sure you can ruin it through the roasting and extraction but you are certainly not going to create something that is not already potentially there through the varietal, cultivation and processing.

As a home roaster you can take your learnings from what you already know in the kitchen with cooking. We use different devices for general cooking as they have different thermal characters. With cooking/roasting you are really applying a type of heat transfer. The different roasting devices ie corretto, behmor, hottop, baby roaster will all have their own individual thermal character which will create a different roasting environment. This is largely what will give the different roasting results and is why we cook certain foods with different devices (ie stove top, oven, pan, grill, BBQ) as the foods will develop differently under different heat conditions.

If you can embrace different roasting devices like you would different cooking implements in the kitchen you will certainly gain a wider understanding of how heat transfer and materials in coffee roasting affect the development of the roasted coffee. Also I think it is important to retain some creative flair when it comes to roasting coffee at home. If you become too analytical when it comes to profiling then you may limit your potential to learn through experimentation. Someone who always follows a recipe exactly will generally learn at a slower pace than someone who likes to push the boundaries of that recipe through trying different things. Some work and some dont but in the end you will have learnt something. You dont rely on numerous probes and graphs of data to cook almost every other food. I find a lot of the home roasters in particular rely too much on the datalogging for the answers as that what a lot of the talk on roasting is generally about. These tools are more for consistency and a record of what you have done and should be used as an aid to the process. A developed pallet, greater understanding of coffee as an ingredient and knowledge of heat transfer will serve you better in achieving your dream results.

For those that knock different roasting devices just be careful as that device used under different circumstances may achieve a different results. Lets face it, our pallets are individual to each of us and therefor opens the door for coffee to be enjoyed under many different roasting and extraction methods. Otherwise things might become a tad boring.

I too would like to see this section more about individuals successes, failures and their learnings from the experience so that we can all hopefully learn something new. The baby roaster really appealed to me because it allows the individual to impart their own creative flair to the process. A great tool for experimentation and sensory development and really just back to basics. Kind of like filter coffee, so simple yet proven as a great way to enjoy coffee.

Anyway enough of my ramblings .....back to stocktake

[stucci]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

+1 to what Mark said.

I have roasted coffee on the baby roaster and compared it to the same coffee roasted on a 15kg roaster and it pretty much cups the same when roasted to the same degree. For example 10-12 minutes on the baby compared to 20-22 minutes on the commercial roaster and the cup character of the same bean is, for all intents and purposes, the same (although I find the rest period is different).

As Mark suggests, get to know whatever roasting device you have and use your tastebuds.

I find the baby a little challenging for unwashed coffees, but very gentle heat for the first few minutes before ramping up gives good results. I have modded mine with an internal stirrer which gives a more evenly roasted looking coffee.

As other people have stated, it is the simplicity of the baby that appeals to me. And with practice you can get consistently good results.

(P.S. please, no analysis on the 20-22 minutes stated above, it is for comparison only :-?)

[backyardbean]

stucci, what did you do to mod with an internal stirrer?

[rong]

I totally agree with Mark, that some people can be overly analytical and miss out on those 'Eureka!' moments. I've been a micro-roaster in UK for a year now and regularly use the FZ as a sampling tool. The fact that I don't have to wait a day or so to cup the result is a big plus. As already mentioned, it is simple to use and doesn't rely on anything more sophisticated than your senses which, I feel, is what roasting is all about. When I want to experiment with new blends, this little workhorse is where I start. It is also great for demos and giving non-snobs an idea of the general roasting process. Hats off to Ram and his fantastic baby roaster.

[stucci]

stucci, what did you do to mod with an internal stirrer?

see this thread (last post):

http://coffeesnobs.com.au/roasters/2...tml#post279676

[backyardbean]

Thanks for posting the info link stucci. :-)

[Bosco_Lever]

stucci,
Nice mod, plain and simple.

I still prefer to lift and shake the roaster every 60-90 seconds.

SHB BEANS.

These are a bit challenging. Beans that are high grown and dense, require a slightly different approach. I start with the flame a little bit lower than normal, to gradually heat the bean, and then increase it slightly after the first puffs of smoke. These puffs usually signify the yellow stage. From here the dense beans absorb the heat more evenly. Once first crack is reached, not just the first snaps, I reduce the heat to very low, and then pay careful attention until second crack starts. Because of their density, the beans can reach rolling second crack very rapidly, and you can roast all the flavours out. Prior to second crack, I favour a gentle approach with low heat and lots of caution. You need to pay attention to the amount of smoke being emitted. You want a very gentle approach until you are ready to tip out the beans. I roast for espresso, and experiment the depths at which I take SHB beans to. I always ensure they have reached second crack and then cool very rapidly. I have taken them into rolling second crack for a few seconds, and they are snapping away like crazy when tipped out. Cooling is immediate and rapid, as these types of beans retain a lot of heat. If not cooled straight away, they continue to cook and you will bake out the flavour. The colour of the beans does not always tell everything, and I chew the beans to gauge roast depth, and also examine the grinds. Chewing is a good indicator, as under roasted beans are very acidic.

I do not gauge a roast by uniformity of colour, especially dry processed Ethiopians and Yemeni beans. I try various approaches and each roast is different. The above approach works well on these types, but I also find that a constant steady heat all the way to first crack is also successful. Softer beans like Brazilians require a gentler approach with less heat, especially when first crack begins. I use a clock as a guide and am not hung up on times, as soft beans are roasted quicker, and dense beans take longer. Longer roasts can produce interesting results, but I prefer shorter roasts, 12-14 minutes in length. You want separation between first and second crack, but not too long. Once again it depends on the type of beans.

Blending.

Sometimes I will blend green beans that are of similar densities, and roast them together. My preference with this roaster is to blend after roasting. For espresso, the Brazil is usually roasted lighter, and the Africans and/or Central Americans are roasted slightly longer and darker. Indonesians and Indians are roasted similar to the Brazilians. I do not like dark roasted Brazilians as they lose too much of their characteristics. On the other hand, lightly roasted centrals and Africans add too much acidity to espresso and are best left to the 3rd wave hipsters and their expensive pressure profiling toys. I use a Lever machine, and enjoy espresso, but do not like sour citrus notes in it. Acidity has its place, and can still be evident in a proper roast.
Mixing hard and soft beans (pre roast) does not work well in this roaster, you are far better off using a KKTO for blends that contain these varieties of green beans.

Care and maintenance.

I always check the screws are tight before roasting, and that everything turns nicely. After each roast I run some very fine sand paper over the metal on the "lid". Due to the oils and chaff build up, it can get stuck if not cleaned. I use a little allen key to keep the three holes in the "lid" free of any build up.

Stick to 200-230g roasts. Any more and you will negatively affect the flavour of the roast.

Currently using a portable camp stove, and the blue butane gas bottles from KMart, and I find they work well and last longer than the green ones from Bunnings. I roast in the garage, away from any wind. Still enjoying it and still learning.
Next goal is to roast for specific types of espresso. I want to achieve the really thick slow, treacle pours on my Lever, so am roasting specific bean types and depths to achieve this.

[fg1972]

FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Can anyone please provide the diameter of the hole at the base where the flame enters?
I have a BBQ with a 12cm diameter side burner, I'm wondering if it could be used as the heat source.
If the flame is too wide & heats the base is that an issue?
Thanks

[sidewayss]

The diameter of the base hole is exactly 5 inches or just under 13 cm.

I suspect the 12 cm burner is too wide, but you should try it out anyway and look at the flame throw. You may have to use a low setting.

If it heats the base,and the flame is not within the hole of the base, then it's not efficient enough.

Another variable to factor in is the distance of the base to the burner. The closer/lower the better in a outdoor environment when there's wind involved.

I use the 7cm burner (medium size) on my kitchen stove which is a representative size of the portable butane burners used for outdoors/camping and it is the right size for variable flame adjustment. ie. Full flame is within the base hole diameter, then later the heat is turned down as 1st crack approaches.

With a large burner, it's not as flexible.

[fg1972]

Thanks for the information sidewayss

[BLrdFX]

Chaff?

haha Unfortunately my wife doesnt appreciate the smell of roasting coffee so Ive done 99% of my roasting in the shed.
Easier to clean the chaff up there too. I just hit it with the leaf blower or the compressor nozzle *

Sorry to hear about your wife and her lack of enthusiasm... As to the chaff, how does this little roaster deal with it? Where does it go? Is a special chaff screen used?

I can't imagine a leaf blower in my kitchen, well maybe I could but my wife would be chasing me about with a meat hatchet!

[Jimmytheboot]

Sorry to hear about your wife and her lack of enthusiasm... As to the chaff, how does this little roaster deal with it? Where does it go? Is a special chaff screen used?

I can't imagine a leaf blower in my kitchen, well maybe I could but my wife would be chasing me about with a meat hatchet!

A little flies out of the holes in the base of the removable handle while roasting, the rest flies away when cooling the beans