FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

[cksyd]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Fantastic and logical explanation of the why and how and what to look for.

I hope you can share some of that info?

Sure

http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1277375158/49#38

[emdebee]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Hmmm.... I definitely need to get one of these  

Ill be getting in touch with you Chris (Talk Coffee)

[>CoffeeRoasters]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Having a play with the roaster while destroying some beans was interesting. From a newbie the hardest thing so far was working out the easiest way to remove the drum, while operating, from the base/drive unit without moving the base/drive unit off centre to the burner. Only 2 roasts in Im sure that will be solved soon enough.

Hi Jaymad

For this just make sure you lift with the drive end straight up and you should be right. If you lift with both handles up you should be able to remove it easily.

Cheers...Mark

[drewjane]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

If you lift with both handles up you should be able to remove it easily.

Ok I will try that, thanks Mark.

While I have your attention.....Does it matter how close the flame is to the drum? .... Do you use full heat at the start of a roast? ...... What does the first sign of smoke mean? .....When I pop the cap to look at the colour change of the beans what am I looking for? .... Do these jeans make me look fat? :-/

Sorry to fire these type of questions at you but Im new at this and the baby roaster is like no other roaster(as previously stated), so why would I follow other threads. I realize you can change each roast or play with the roast to achieve different flavours with temp changes, and thats a learning curve, I would just like to know some basic fundamentals. Living in country Vic its not like I can pop in for a demo, so I guess you guys are my life line.

Cheers

Jaymad

[>CoffeeRoasters]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Cant imagine how cold it is there Jaymad lol

Does it matter how close the flame is to the drum?

Yes...the closer it is the more heat will be generated on the drum. High flame more heat as it is closer or hitting the drum...more gas is burning etc etc

What does the first sign of smoke mean?

In very basic terms that the volatile compounds (hydrocarbons) in the bean are evaporating. Compounds such as carbohydrates (ie sugars) start to evaporate once heated and what you start to see is smoke. Its probably an indication that the temp inside the bean is around 150deg as this is when hydrocarbons start to vaporise. A good thing to know as it is a more accurate guide than any temp probe as you are only really measuring the condition outside the bean. A small amount of smoke will appear before the yellow stage but you will know that it is getting towards yellow. You can use this as a guide for determining how fast the temp is climbing and will also give you an idea how the roast is progressing. There is a hell of a lot more going on here but you can get so caught up with the whole science behind the chemical reactions. It can be realy confusing but to simplify it for those that arent that familiar:

The two really important occurances in the process are:
- Caramalisation - Different types of sugars produced at different temps (oxidation of sugar). Some sweeter than others...produces the distinctive caramel flavour or nuttiness. The temps you apply, when and for how long will impact this. Going to high on heat and for too long these will start to burn. You could argue that by extending the period of time when some of the sweeter sugars like glucose are produced you can impact the sweetness of the roast.
- Maillards Reaction - different from caramalisation as requires the presence of amino acids reacting with sugars. This also requires heat and the by product is a range of odours and flavours. Proven to be very complex in Coffee hence the large number of flavours and smells reported (I think around 800 from memory).

The two process are similar to the naked eye (browning) and for most of us for our tastebuds as well. The coffee cuppers with well trained pallets will pick up a lot more of the results of Maillards but for most of us the things such as Chocolates and Caramels are the most obvious. Acidic fruits also more so with Mailards as we familiarise easily with them. I had the opportunity to see Tracy Allen at work and his sensory skills were amazing...but that comes with 20 years of training!!!

Some simple understanding of the above can really help with your roasting. I like to think of it in sections and that each section can impact the end result. If I want to really experiment I might just focus on one section at a time and see what impact that has. As home roasters you can have this luxury to experiment as much as you like....thats half the fun...your not going to lose any business.

When I pop the cap to look at the colour change of the beans what am I looking for?

Kind off answered this above...each change is a section characterised by a reaction due to the increasing temperatures. I could sit here and try and explain in detail but I think the above should give you a start to at least research some more into those two key reactions taking place. There is some really good info out there so Google away.

The main difference with this roaster is that you are changing the condition these reactions take place in. As heat is the underlying accellerant...the way in which it is applied will have an effect. Thats why we have so many different ways of cooking...as they all generally produce different results

Happy roasting and hope this helps some...

[drewjane]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

WOW, that was a good answer. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

You have given me a good direction to go now. I will do a little more research and then roast away.

Thanks for taking the time and effort Mark. Im sure there are others that have just benefited from this reply.

Cheers

Jaymad

[Bill]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Picked mine up today. Thanks for the demo, Mark. Looking forward to trying it out on the weekend.  

[stucci]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Six roasts down and have already learnt a great deal. Initially I was concerned that it might be difficult to achieve an even, medium roast, but a good shake at 1-2 minute intervals seems to make a real difference (3 nice, even, medium roasts of Peru, with positive results in the cup after ~30 minutes).

Would be interested to hear how others are applying the flame. So far I have set the burner (Gasmate Butane Camp Oven) at around 40% for 4 minutes, down to ~25% into FC around 6-7 minutes. From there I drop the flame down very low for another two or three minutes before removing it altogether, dumping the beans around 11-12 minutes.

So far finding it difficult to stretch time between FC and SC in a controlled way, but practice should see this improve. FC seems to go on for up to 2 minutes leading into SC (hard to tell this with little experience of this roaster so far).

Interesting to smell the drum after just 6 roasts. Strong smells of butter popcorn, honey and caramel. Tends to back up the theories on development of sugars, as there is a real sweetness to the smell of the drum.

Looking forward to hearing from others as to how they are getting on, it is certainly a very interesting device.

[>CoffeeRoasters]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Hey guys...

Forgot to mention in previous posts but one thing that may help some of you with your roasting. You will see posted around the traps that a lot of emphasis is put on 1st crack, what time in happens and how long after before you dump etc etc. This is all important but dont worry too much on the timing of when this happens as it really is just when the beans get to a certain temperature...you can make it happen at all sorts of times, there is no right or wrong way only that it will have an effect on the roast and that you should explore these differences in order to come to your own conclusions. You might hear that 1st crack has to be at this time or within this time etc etc. If you believe this without really understanding it then you are limiting your opportunities for exploration. What is more important is how you got there.

A lot of emphasis is put on post 1st crack and extending it out but dont under estimate what is happening before 1st crack as this is what leads up to caramalisation and Maillards. Different types of sugars are produced at different temps mostly before the beans have really browned so as I mentioned before this can impact the roast. Remember that they are both reacting with the heat and also that Maillards needs reducing sugars and amino acids to accur and give off those flavours and aromas.

Just dont like seeing people get too worried about having to hit things in certain time limits as it does freak the new roasters out. Its not that unusual for commercial roasters to have roast times over 30 mins...there is an argument for slower roasting (does not mean baking) so you may find some results you like by extending it out more (not suggestign to this extreme). Coffee beans only have small amounts of moisture (10-12%) so its probably best to go slower at the start before 1st crack before the beans are too dry. If you go to long after 1st crack you might end up with a brittle, light and tasteless bean.

So far finding it difficult to stretch time between first crack and second crack in a controlled way, but practice should see this improve.first crack seems to go on for up to 2 minutes leading into second crack (hard to tell this with little experience of this roaster so far).

Try switching the flame off once a bit into 1st crack and you will slow the process and if you need to speed it up later on just turn it back on. Its only a small chamber so the changes will happen fairly quickly. What you are doing is really good so far. Once the beans are hot enough they will have enough thermal mass to keep climbing by themselves so dont be afraid to switch off the heat at points all together.

Cheers

[emdebee]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Finally grabbed one of these...

Did 2 sacrificial dark roasts of Robusta to "break" it in.

Then did a roast of Kenya Kagunyu AA and I am finally getting the special bits from the roast that I couldnt achieve with my Gene Café - WOW  

Now to do some roasts of my "special" beans...

[TC]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

Congrats emdebee,

They really have given me food for thought...

Its back to the old abbrustulaturo days

I have subtly altered the way I roast on my Has Garanti in light of the learning in the session Mark ran at Cuppacoffee on Saturday...

I am hoping we see results in the cup as well...

Enjoy  8-)

Chris

p.s- for those whod like a demo, well run one on saturday. Details: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1163933911/14#14

[cksyd]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

abbrustulaturo...

Tried google translator and came up empty.

What is that?

[emdebee]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

So far, in my feeble experience

Air flow is really critical to get the "special" nuances out of the bean...

Which is why I am so excited about the initial results VS my Gene.

My only criticism of the design is that there ought to have been more horizontal room from the support to the base (with the vents) as the support has to be cleaned between every roast due to the build up of condensated (if thats a word?) chaff... minor issue - LOVE IT!!!

[emdebee]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

abbrustulaturo...

Tried google translator and came up empty.

What is that?

a Neapolitan word for a coffee roaster

[cuppacoffee]

Re: FZ-RR 700 Baby Roaster

They really have given me food for thought...

And me too!

What I find most interesting is that using the baby roaster, or a similar process, was the conventional way of roasting at home, and the non-western world still embrace this method. And as home roasting has gained new popularity, rather than stepping all the way back to conduction, apart from the BBQ, most home roasters use a convection only method, perhaps in an attempt to somehow mimic commercial roasters. I think it would be great if you could mount a burner under a breadmaker and use the heat gun only occasionally!

When I started out I was lucky enough to have a mentor by the name of Serge Siboni. With knowledge of the particular raw bean, Serge suggested I should mainly be concerned with the time taken to reach a particular end temperature and not be so concerned with first and second crack events. I still call it the "how to boil a frog" method and find that one of the most significant outcomes, is that the oils take far longer to migrate to the surface and stay fresher, longer.

The Baby Roaster has become my new sample roaster. Being able to roast small batches to dark, medium, and light, then trying the results immediately enables me to tackle larger quantities with more confidence, as I know what Im aiming for.

I love the fact that preparing good coffee, whether it be in a commercial environment or at home, is a ritual/ceremony. Home roasters obviously enjoy their ability to take part in another step of the from bean to cup process. Waiting for 4, 7, 10, 14 days or whatever to taste the results is fine and the anticipation may well be part of the enjoyment. I know I can be impatient though, and so love the way the Baby Roaster extends yet unifies the coffee preparation ritual.

If you hadnt guessed already, Im having fun!