Baby roaster v Behmor

[yxoc]

Hi Guys,
Please help a new guy looking to upgrade from a popper.

My roasting needs are small so the quantity roasted in the Baby roaster and the Behmor would both be fine and I want to buy the one of these two that develops the best taste in the roasted coffee. I see that some of you now have the Behmor and this baby roaster so can you please give your opinions on which provides the better taste. I realise that there are many other advantages/disadvantages to each based on convenience, level of automation, dependance on other equipment to make it work - but I am simply interested in which produces roasted coffee of the best quality.

Thanks in advance.

Yxoc

[Andy]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

A loaded question!

With the obvious bias as a seller of the Behmor I say it produces a better tasting roast.

In general, I tend not to like any roaster without airflow and find that the toasting of the chaff with the beans produces overly smoky flavoured roasts.

Of course results will depend on the type and processing of the bean and the skill/knowledge of the user.

Your best bet would be to try a roast from each and form your own opinion as the main reason that you should home roast is to get results that suit YOU.

[yxoc]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

Thanks Andy,
Not trying to pose loaded questions, just trying to make the most informed decision on a piece of equipment that I dont intend to replace for some time (as I said my roasting needs are small). Lots of good comments written about both. Lots of comments suggesting that the baby roaster coffee tastes better earlier but nothing concrete to suggest that it tastes better overall. All this stuff is a little subjective, of course, as the baby roaster proponents are saying that it works better because it has NO airflow.

Unfortunately Im not in a position to taste the results from each.

Regards

Yxoc

[cksyd]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

Hi Yxoc,

Firstly, I think you need to buy another vowel..... ;D

I have both, along with a Corretto and poppers...

Honestly, for me sometimes it gets down to the ease of process and also the quantity.

I think Andy makes a valid point that cant be refuted as with the baby the chaff predominantly stays in. The Behmor at least separates it from the beans as does a popper, Corretto, commercial roaster etc...

The Behmor is a dream to use. It is an absolutely no fuss machine that will do good amounts in one roast.

The baby gives you a bit more scope on adjustability dependent on your heat source. So far I have found the camp stove canisters lose pressure and therefore heat when they are down to about two thirds. Mid roast this can be a pain. I have also seen others mention this.

Primarily the baby has been marketed as a straight to grinder roaster. That is the big advantage it has. Plenty of reading as to why.

For full adjustability, dont discount a Corretto set up.

But if you want roasting to be a pleasure rather than work, you cant go past a Behmor.

Chris

[Bosco_Lever]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

In general, I tend not to like any roaster without airflow and find that the toasting of the chaff with the beans produces overly smoky flavoured roasts.

Of course results will depend on the type and processing of the bean and the skill/knowledge of the user.

I have to disagree with the comment about smoky flavoured roasts. I do not experience this.
Flavour is subjective, what one person likes, another despises. Without tasting results from both roasters, it is extremely difficult to make a choice.

The main point of difference between these roasters is control. With the baby roaster you get 100% control. You can make an infinite number of adjustments which are not possible with the Behmor.
However, you also need skill like Andy said. Some find it easy to get good results, others struggle.
But then the same applies to the Behmor.

Either way, whichever you choose you can be guaranteed of hours of addictive fun. Read both threads thoroughly and work out the pros and cons of both.

Good luck either way.

[Bill]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

I have to disagree with the comment about smoky flavoured roasts. I do not experience this.

I dont experience this either.

[gbatterley]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

I have asked myself the same question. I plugged for the baby roaster and in all honesty I dont know that I made the right decision. I have read the threads on using the baby roaster more times than I care to remember and more than 15 or so roasts in I am still not getting anywhere. I cant identify first or second crack through smoke or sounds and find it very difficult to judge the colour of the beans unless I tip some out into a sieve and then put them back in the roaster which I find messy and worry that the roast is losing momentum. You have to manually shake the roaster every minute to ensure an even roast and after finishing it takes a few minutes and a bit of mess to separate the beans from the chaff.
You can put my opinion in perspective by the near universal praise the baby roaster has got by almost everyone who has it apart from me. You can see that for more experienced roasters or for first timers with the knack of roasting all the hands-on of the baby roaster is manna from heaven.
I hope this isnt seen as a dig at the baby roaster its just an opinion honestly given.
I have not had the chance to use a Behmor so do not know if I swapped I would also be swapping one set of problems for another. My inkling is that the Behmor might be more straightforward to get a drinkable roast from and is easier to use. I have only seen one in action once before at the last Melbourne CS get-together and that is the impression I got.
I will probably be selling my baby roaster and buying a Behmor so Ill read with interest anyone who knows both roasters give a more experienced opinion than mine.

[sidewayss]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

As you can see Yxoc, there,s different opinions on those two roasters. As you have read what you could in the forums, they both produce a good result. It boils down to whether you prefer the convenience but still lets you learn from roasting, then the Behmor may be for you.
If you prefer to have a hands on approach, then perhaps the baby roaster may be rewarding.
You just need to do some more research and then ask yourself which one would bring the best out of you.
As for myself, i,m very happy with the results from my baby.
Can i ask if you were getting good results from the popper?

Gary

[yxoc]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

Thanks for your replies Guys,
Gary - I feel I have been getting reasonable results from the popper. Firstly, as people say, it is a good introduction to roasting as far as recognising the different stages of the roast, seeing smoke, colours etc. The results from the popper have been fed into an aeropress and Presso and my wife and I have been enjoying the home roasted coffee very much! I find that I prefer my coffee to about 95% of coffees bought in cafes and these days I brace myself for disappointment when going out for coffee (we do this less and less now). Problems with the popper include small roast volume, a huge variation in roast times as ambient temperature varies and lack of roast control. I have put several kilos through the popper now and have really enjoyed the ethiopian varieties but I keep hearing people talk about berry flavours, citrus flavours and various spice flavours that they note in the coffee. I havent noted these flavour nuances and I feel that the popper does not bring them out very well. Its false economy to spend good money on a Yemen coffee for instance (and I have loved the flavour of this coffee even from the popper) and then roast it with a method that doesnt develop the flavours fully. So my main driver for the next roaster is flavour development.

My main concern for the baby roaster is the need to shake it every couple of minutes to get an even roast. I am sorry but this has nothing to do with "enjoying the manual process" and everything to do with poor product development - clearly the manufacturers need to incorporate some baffles into this roaster. I would be happy to live with this if there is a decent workaround and Javabeans idea of using bulldog clips seems like a reasonable one. Hopefully V2.0 of the roaster will fix this problem.

Behmor does seem very attractive from a convenience standpoint but doesnt seem to offer quite the same control?

Not decided yet.

Cheers

Derek (vowels bought)

[yxoc]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

Chris (cksyd),
I see that you host one of the pick up points for the Beanbay coffee. I live in the Hawkesbury and was thinking about having my next batch delivered there. What happens at the pickup time other than coffee pickup, do you guys have tastings etc? Hoping that you might have these two roasters on display?

Regards

Derek

[Thundergod]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

You can put my opinion in perspective by the near universal praise the baby roaster has got by almost everyone who has it apart from me. You can see that for more experienced roasters or for first timers with the knack of roasting all the hands-on of the baby roaster is manna from heaven.  

Im too lazy atm to find any examples of first timers praising the baby but dont doubt its possible as my first popper roast was as I expected it to be.
I did a LOT of research before doing that first roast.

Some people can do that; others cant and need more practical experience (hands on).
Maybe you are in the second group.

Ive seen a demo of the baby and have no doubt Id get the hang of it pretty quickly if not first go.
The variable that would test me would be the heat source.

How many popper roasts have you done?
Have you tried other roasting methods and how many roasts of those?
Experience plays a big part in my opinion when changing roasting method/machine.

[Bosco_Lever]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

My main concern for the baby roaster is the need to shake it every couple of minutes to get an even roast. I am sorry but this has nothing to do with "enjoying the manual process" and everything to do with poor product development - clearly the manufacturers need to incorporate some baffles into this roaster. I would be happy to live with this if there is a decent workaround and Javabeans idea of using bulldog clips seems like a reasonable one. Hopefully V2.0 of the roaster will fix this problem.

A lot of science went into this roaster. To say it has poor product development, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what Coffee Tech hoped to achieve. This is a very well made roaster. It is designed as a sample roaster. A sample roaster allows a person to learn and experience the roasting experience. You do not learn anything by putting the beans in, letting it turn and tipping them out. By lifting the roaster, and shaking it, you notice the changes in smell and smoke. You need to open it up and view the process to learn and understand what is going on. This is a hands on approach with 100% control. It is not for everyone!
Waiting for version 2.0 is like waiting to win the lottery. Any modifications to the unit would add extra costs. Would this translate to a better tasting result? I doubt it. Would you get a prettier result? Probably. I know I prefer taste to looks when it comes to coffee.
Everyone seems to be caught up on how the roasted beans look. They should be concentrating on how they taste in the cup.
The unit can be modified, baffles added, different weights of beans used etc, etc. In the end you are not mastering how to use the roaster the way it was designed. All you are doing is blaming your tool for your shortcomings.
If you do not want to be hands on, then do not buy this unit.
If you are willing to persevere and want great coffee from a simple but very effective and well constructed unit, then buy the baby roaster.
I have stated in the other thread, beans from Ethiopia (Yirgacheffe) and Yemen turn out well in the baby roaster.

If you still cannot decide, buy both roasters. Use them and decide which process/taste you like best. Then sell the one you do not like. Resale value of both units will remain high due to their popularity.

[yxoc]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

GDay Lwowiak,
I should have realised my strong comments would attract some criticism. Overall I think the baby roaster sounds great and that is why I am considering it as one of only two shortlisted contenders in a largish field of possible devices. I dont doubt that a lot of thought has gone into it and that it is produced to a high standard, but I cannot bring myself to see, in any way, how the lack of baffles can be sold as a positive. To my (limited Im sure) way of thinking, HAVING to remove the heat to shake the beans is a limitation - being able to remove or apply heat as desired could be described as control. This device has both these traits - adding baffles would only improve it. This is honest (hopefully constructive) consumer feedback - if I was a product designer I would desperately seek out feedback to help improve my product and make it as good as possible in a very competitive world and I hope my comments can be seen in this light. The attractiveness of this product is the ability to have complete control (suits control freaks like me) and the quality of the roast in the short term. Baffles would not erode this benefit in any way that I can see.

To be balanced, of course the Behmor has its negatives (like the strange 100% power application in the last part of the roast) but these have been mentioned a lot already by other consumers so no benefit in repeating - hopefully the producer is taking note of these with a plan to solve them as well.

I am not waiting for V2.0 of anything and my decision will be made between the current examples of each type - but for the sake of consumers down the track I hope V2.0 includes baffles.

After all this sidetrack - my hope is to get a feeling for which will produce the best tasting coffee and I havent been able to make that decision yet.

Yours in Product development

Derek

[Bill]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

I cant identify first or second crack through smoke or sounds  

I have no trouble identifying 1st and 2nd cracks in it. This is really no different to identifying these points in any other roaster. Is this your first roaster? 1st and 2nd cracks sound different for starters. 1st is more of a popping sound, like popcorn. 2nd is more of a sharper snapping type sound, like snapping twigs - some compare it to rice bubbles type sound. Also, you should know after a bit of experience with the roaster as to what times 1st and 2nd cracks generally occur at, so you should be listening out for the signs around those times. If in doubt as to whether you’re at 1st or 2nd, open the roaster and see what colour the beans are. If they’re still relatively light in colour, you’re at 1st crack. If they are getting dark, you’re at 2nd. If they are covered in oil, you’re well in to or past rolling 2nd - tip them in to the bin if they are at this level!

[sidewayss]

Re: Baby roaster v Behmor

I would definitely agree that if you can afford it, get both and try them out. They dont cost as much as the Gene or the Hottop. I,m not sure extacly how much they cost now...$395 approx for the Behmor, $250 manual and $380 approx for motorized baby roaster.
Together, they,d still be less than the Gene!!
If you sell one of those, am sure there are CSers here that will be interested, and you have not lost too much in your investment.
Soo...if you cant see both in action at Beanbay pick-up, get both if you can manage it. Good luck

Gary