New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

[jaybee]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

Ive just ordered one, looks worth a try.

[Randy_G.]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

Debate all you like about human health and teflon, but if you have pet birds in area where the roasted will be used, the toxic effect of teflon fumes are well documented. "DuPont wrote that significant decomposition of the coating will occur only when temperatures exceed about 660 degrees F (340 degrees C).... [In] Teflon toxicosis, as the bird poisonings are called, the lungs of exposed birds hemorrhage and fill with fluid, leading to suffocation. "

[cjt10]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

occur only when temperatures exceed about 660 degrees F (340 degrees C).... [In] Teflon toxicosis

So for an application where the heat will not exceed 250 degrees C, whats the problem?

Ive just ordered one, looks worth a try.

Good for you JayBee, look forward to a review!

[TC]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

So for an application where the heat will not exceed 250 degrees C, whats the problem?

I have seen 320^oC via the CS probe in my drum on warm up. Drop temps of 260^oC are common in drum roasters.

[Bean_Bear]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

Dry piston type Medical Air compressors must be fitted with temperature shutdown switches if they use PTFE (Teflon) seals, these were set to about 160^oC on the ones we had (since been replaced with screw type compressors using deionised water as a lubricant from their own internal reverse osmosis plant).

Just something to think about.

I use Teflon coated cooking utensils, but Im careful not to overheat them. My KKTO does not have Teflon in it anywhere, even though it would make good bearings and slides in various places.

Would I drink coffee roasted in an I-Coffee, yes (if it was good). If I were going to buy one and had the choice between stainless steel internals and Teflon coated internals I would get stainless steel.

Would I buy one......., already got two roasters.

[cjt10]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

I have seen 320oC via the CS probe in my drum on warm up. Drop temps of 260oC are common in drum roasters.

Chris, I can understand that in a commercial roaster, but surely a home roaster such as the one in this thread isnt going to get up to anywhere near those sorts of temperatures, particulaly where there is no option of user adjustment.

[cuppacoffee]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

Chris, I can understand that in a commercial roaster, but surely a home roaster such as the one in this thread isnt going to get up to anywhere near those sorts of temperatures, particulaly where there is no option of user adjustment

Im only speculating - when a bean is roasted in a commercial roaster it takes, X time. In a popper, it generally takes X-Y to achieve the same colour. That Y is often quite significant. So I would think that there needs to be some serious heat being applied to achieve that. :-/

[sorrentina]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

I have not measured the temperature inside the roast pot- but the machine has an inbuilt temperature fuse set at 167 C and an overheating device set to 150 C. I imagine these relate more to the entire unit, the electronics and the element output than the temp in the roast chamber.

The temp in the convection/conduction chamber does of course get higher than 167 C BUT:

I do not think there is any way this roaster reaches 300 C inside the roast chamber.

I fact I am almost certain it does not get over 240 C with a 150 gram batch of beans.

I will check with the manufacturer and post back.

I have also asked them about the possibility of a stainless or anodized alloy pot.

However I do think that the risks from Teflon have been overstated in this thread.

[lu]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

Thankyou for your thoughtful response Jack,
and WOW it would be great if we could get the I-Coffee Roaster with stainless steel roasting pan and cooling pan...

However I do think that the risks from Teflon have been overstated in this thread.

There are some posts on EWG, (Environment Working Group, Canada) that may give you additional food for thought. e.g. Teflon offgas studies and Teflon chemical health risks  e.g.

"Since the 1950’s, numerous industries have used PFOA to manufacture everyday consumer products, among them, non-stick cookware, food packaging and clothing. PFOA has become a pervasive global contaminant because of its widespread use over many years and its extraordinary persistence and toxicity.
As demonstrated by an extensive body of research, PFOA has been linked to developmental toxicity, immunotoxicity, alterations in hormonal levels, metabolic disturbances and an elevated risk of cancer."


It seems particularly a problem in situations where heat and degradation of surface can work together offgassing PFOA.  Potentially the I-Coffee could create that situation e.g. where the beans are abrading surface of roasting pot and some fumes are coming off, add to this that the I-Coffee is marketed as an indoors roaster.

I mentioned in earlier post that  CS thread in 2009 addressed the issue for home roasters using breadmachines

I certainly was not that aware but my OH says he is looking out for me  and there are reports of 1,200 birds dying (at 202°C under Teflon -coated hatchery lamps). You probably wouldnt want Polly to be in the vicinity of roasting 

I believe that all of us CSrs are here to help each other, (perhaps stainles steel would be cheaper and safer to manufacture?) well back to my popper but Im still in the market for a roaster sometime soon.... Must say the steampunk look of I-Coffee is so strange it is appealing {sortof}, somehow reminiscent of my grandmothers valve radio.

[sorrentina]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

Hello Lu,

I really hope you are going well with your treatment and wish you all the best.

I cant say about the research you have linked to: however I note that multiple studies have confirmed that there is no measurable PFOA in Teflon (despite what Kevo reckons). It is used in the manufacturing process but does not end up in the finished product.


The off-gassing you have mentioned has nothing to do with PFOA. It is associated with other materials in the finish.

We can all look on the internet and find websites devoted to the dangers of Teflon. But have a look on the internet at something called HAARP. There are people who firmly believe it caused the Haiti earthquake and virtually every other disaster in the world. Now HAARP really is weird (look up the original patent if you dare)- but I seriously doubt all the claims I have read.

Teflon has been used for many years in a very wide range of applications and is currently certified for uses such as in this Roaster. No teflon cooking products have ever been recalled and teflon is accepted by regulatory bodies as safe for use.

As I mentioned I have already asked the Koreans about the possibility of a different finish: but I absolutely cannot say whether they will produce one.

You have assumed that the current coating is purely for cosmetic reasons: I have no idea if this is the case- but I doubt it. I feel it is more likely there for a technical reason.

Cast iron is out of the question.

Spinning stainless is unlikely as the pot has a specific moulded form- and is likely made via casting.

If I did offer a stainless version I imagine I would get complaints about chromium...

Also a change to the material could well affect how heat is conducted and the entire roasting system... meaning a re-design.

Having said all of that I respect everyones  opinions and the judgments they make for themselves about what they will and wont use/eat/consume, etc.

Myself I wont eat cage eggs.

Personally I am not at all worried about continuing to use this roaster.

I actually had a pet Rainbow Lorrikeet. His aviary was right beside where I used to roast. He never showed any signs at all of any illness or discomfort (I say had because we had to take him to an animal sanctuary in the Hills- he was too damn Noisy). Also I never experienced any of the flu like symptoms that are associated with degassing teflon.

Having said that I had never heard of this bird/teflon issue and wouldnt have done it if I knew.

[don_nairn]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

Teflon I have a 10mm thick piece of Teflon in my knee between the two bits of stainless steel.

as oxidization is considered a large part of aging perhaps people should avoid oxygen?

and whatever you do dont put Di-hydrogen oxide in your coffee :

I must admit at this price point I would look at a behmor closely.

[emckissock]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

as oxidization is considered a large part of aging perhaps people should avoid oxygen?

and whatever you do dont put Di-hydrogen oxide in your coffee    :

I must admit at this price point I would look at a behmor closely.

Are you suggesting that aging is bad? Ive always believed that it beats the alternative. ;D

Jack - how about a comparison between the behmor and the I-Coffee? What makes one stand out from the other?

[jaybee]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

whatever you do dont put Di-hydrogen oxide in your coffee

We live in a bad, bad world and I just dont know how we survive with all these dangers around us. That stuff is deadly when inhaled...

My roaster should arrive mid week and i have to say I an looking forward to playing with it. I have had an ideal home roaster in my head for a while and it looked like a cross between a giant popper or a mini KKTO, then guess what arrives on the scene

[lu]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

That stuff is deadly when inhaled...

too true jaybee  ... not waving drowning !!! :
Looking forward to hearing of your I-Coffee roaster journey

I actually had a pet Rainbow Lorrikeet. His aviary was right beside where I used to roast. He never showed any signs at all of any illness or discomfort (I say had because we had to take him to an animal sanctuary in the Hills- he was too damn Noisy). Also I never experienced any of the flu like symptoms that are associated with degassing teflon.

Having said that I had never heard of this bird/teflon issue and wouldnt have done it if I knew.

Jack good to see your bird had no problems as parrots (yes they are raucous ) of all birds are said to be particularly susceptible. If your lorrikeet in vicinity and didnt fall off the perch! showed no ill-effects when roasting. This may point to the low temperature and/or the effective fume extractive/scrubbing qualities of the I-Coffee....

And I shouldnt I know I shouldnt but John Cleese and the parrot sketch for some reason comes to mind.....
"Es not pinin! Es passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! Es expired and gone to meet is maker! Es a stiff! Bereft of life, e rests in peace! If you hadnt nailed im to the perch ed be pushing up the daisies! Is metabolic processes are now istory! Es off the twig! Es kicked the bucket, es shuffled off is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!"

Seriously as this is marketed as an indoor coffee roaster, where does the smoke go, how is it treated, is there a filter?

I saw a youtube video of roasting to the darkest setting (the resulting browns were nearly black!) but there was no smoke visible as it was roasting.

[sorrentina]

Re: New Korean Home Roaster soon avialable in Australia- I-Coffee-

WhoMe: I do have a Behmor as well (I bought one as soon as they came out to compare with my I-Coffee) so I can make a comparison:

The two machines do seem to roast slightly differently. I really cant explain the difference though- I am not expert enough. I guess the Behmor works primarily from radiant heat (with convection)  and the I-coffee from applied/conduction (also with convection). It may be that the beans from the I-Coffee are ready to use quicker as people have found with other applied heat roasters.

I usually roast 400 grams in the Behmor- so the roast takes quite a lot longer than the 12-14 minutes in the I-Coffee. The Behmor releases a little more smoke during the roast (but there are more beans).

In terms of Chaff catching the I-Coffee wins hands down. It catches it all and takes just a second to empty.

Obviously the Behmor wins hands down in terms of roast profile adjust-ability and max roast volume. The Behmor is the outright uncontested winner in this regard. It is great to be able to roast 400 grams in a batch.

The I-Coffee easily wins in terms of the ease with which you can remove the beans for manual cooling. I (personally) dont like to do this on the Behmor and instead leave the door open (a minute into cooling) and time the roast so that it ends in the cooling cycle (which does work well for me). This means the I-Coffee has an advantage if you set too long/hot a roast- on the Behmor this can be trouble and equal a burnt batch- not so on the I-Coffee. Obviously once you are used to either machine there are few if any burnt batches (assuming you keep and eye on things as you always should).

The I-Coffee has an of an advantage in terms of viewing the beans. The view is very clear through the glass dome- you can see exactly what is happening inside (you can also easily hear first and second crack over the motor). The cage in the Behmor obscures the view a bit.

In the cup I have enjoyed roasts from both machines pretty much equally I guess. I still use both- the Behmor if I need quantity and the I-Coffee for quick and easy roasts, and making blends (ie: sometimes I will roast 400 grams of a regular bean in the Behmor and 100 grams of robusta in the I-Coffee- then blend- or I will roast 3 separate beans in the I-coffee to make a 400 gram (ish) 3 way blend).

The I-Coffee could be a good option for commercial roasters who want to do small test roasts.

The shot at the end of my I-Coffee video was actually made using beans roasted in the I-Coffee four days earlier (Peru Casa De Selva). As you can see it is really a great shot! At least I thought so and it tasted delicious.

In the cup I am not subtle enough of a roaster/taster/cupper to be able to register any difference between the two roasters and I havent actually done any direct scientific side by side bean comparison. I have always been very happy with my roasts from both. I think my coffee is as good as what I can get from a commercial raoster...

Lu: there is no smoke released because at the back of the machine there is a large Afterburner. This works like those on some commercial roasters I think. The smoke passes through heated elements and is incinerated at high temperature. It works very well- only the odd whisp of smoke can be seen. The roasting chamber is very nicely sealed- and the machine will not operate if the roast chamber is incorrectly closed.

Also the beans in the video do look quite dark: you can hear how fast second crack was going when I removed them. But they were not burnt. After a few days they had some nice oil spotting and I have been drinking that batch these last few days. It is great! Normally I would have removed them a fraction earlier but I was working with the camera, etc. In the end I am very happy with the result though- and will roast a few more batches of the Peru just like that.

I havent mentioned much about using the full automated cycle. If you use this cycle there is hardly any smoke involved and you could roast indoors. The smell of roasting coffee however is quite strong.

On the automated cycle you set the desired roast level (from light to dark- with three increments of each). You start the roast and off it goes. After the heat cycle has finished the cooling cycle begins automatically . This takes around 10 minutes. At the end the beans are warm to touch.

The trick with the auto cycle is that settings do vary from bean to bean- so you need to dial in the setting you like for a given bean. Also the roast will continue into the cooling cycle so you need to calculate that into what setting you choose at the start.

In practice the best way to dial in a roast is to start with a lighter setting- and then add time if you want a darker bean on your next roast.

Of course if you make an error and the beans are ready before the cooling cycle begins you can terminate the roast and remove the beans quickly for manual cooling or you can start the cooling cycle early by pressing the power button once.

Conversely if the beans are not getting to where you want them: you can press the power button twice and this will reset the roast counter and add more time to the roast. If you do this you need to be attentive - to ensure the beans dont get burnt- and you will need to start the cooling cycle manually.

So in use automated roasting is more complex than manual BUT if you have a few kilos of the same bean- and have already dialled it in- it is very simple: you can just set your favorite level and let it go.

A few people have asked me about the dimension so I will post them here:

the roaster is weighty for its size: in the box it is around 6KGs.

the dimensions of the unit are:

30CM High
20CM Wide
30 CM Deep (including the afterburner at the rear of the machine).