Another Happy KKTO Owner

[sidewayss]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner


Looks like a cotton pickin saw mill under them planks arrr!

Yes, i do believe your bench set is a step up.

If anyone else like to post their KKTO piece of kits here, youre most welcome to especially those from the ACT, and where KK? Oh, :-? The principality of Hutt River.

Gary at G

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

Looks like a cotton pickin saw mill under them planks arrr!

Yep looks like a saw mill to me as well 

If anyone else like to post their KKTO piece of kits here, youre most welcome to especially those from the ACT

Yes the more the merrier
It a great design

   The principality of Hutt River. 

Gary at G

Thats in your neck of the woods Gary
The wheat belt of Western Australia

Its a fairdinkum, separate principality inside Australias Borders

I just thought that they would also enjoy good coffee ?   8-)

KK

[mcsblues]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

Hows your gentle breaking in period going Gary?

Im getting better;



A couple of quick questions KK (sorry probably asked before somewhere).

(a) it appears (not that it really matters) my thermocouple is under reading by about 10 degrees (?) Any idea why?



(b) She is well and truly insulated - fireblanket + old towel + 12mm ply box (the outside of which doesnt even get warm, so clearly any heat loss is around the top. Has anyone tried another fireblanket rolled into a snake draft excluder shape to drape around the edge of the glass top of the TO? Does that sound like a plan?

Oh, and ...

(c) is there a simple way of bypassing the TO thermostat (dont worry I can get a sparky mate to do it!).

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

it appears (not that it really matters) my thermocouple is under reading by about 10 degrees (?) Any idea why?

Position the probe end lower - Taking care that its not touching the agitator blade

You can also place it on the bottom, you just need to press a dimple on the floor of the perforated chamber so the probe sits flat 

She is well and truly insulated - fireblanket + old towel + 12mm ply box (the outside of which doesnt even get warm, so clearly any heat loss is around the top. Has anyone tried another fireblanket rolled into a snake draft excluder shape to drape around the edge of the glass top of the TO? Does that sound like a plan?

Yes I have done it on 1kg + tests
However you must not block the cooling / smoke escape slits on the TO

is there a simple way of bypassing the TO thermostat (dont worry I can get a sparky mate to do it!).

Try an adjustment of the thermostat first (someone has done it)
Increase its sensor range 15 deg higher & see how that works for you

KK

[mcsblues]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

Thanks again KK (if youd like a lever handle for your Strega - it is heaps better! - just let me know)

Will do on (a) and (b)

How do I adjust the thermostat?

[Koffee_Kosmo]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

How do I adjust the thermostat?

Ask your sparky mate
I just know someone has done it (but not sure of procedure)

There are 2 other ways
1] See Borat123s thread for details as he switches the element on/off manually

2] Disengage the thermostat and run the TO direct via a variac
On both mods - the fan must run as normal

KK

[mcsblues]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

Yeah, Ive just been re-reading Borats thread - all Greek to me but Im sure my sparky mate owes me a favour or two ...

I think the insulation is a good first step - might be less of an issue when the thermostat cuts the heat off (as it does) and cooling (burping) is an easier option if the heat is there and stays there. That last roast was 650g - could have ramped up a tad quicker (and the 1c to 2c transition got away from me a bit), but it just goes to show what a great system it is ... almost fool proof!! :-[ ;D

[sidewayss]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

Hows your gentle breaking in period going Gary?

Shes well n truly broken in to the stage i can rely on her easy going nature and gentle heat to roast some fine damn beans.

Because my turbo oven is rated at 1300 watts, i leave her on full heat all the way through til the end of the roast.
Because of that, i wont do any bigger than 600 gm loads.
500gm greens is the sweet spot.

Having a short break from roasting til later this week, then its full speed again til the end of the year

Who knows, given time and spare change, i may well have a second unit running side by side.

Ill call them....twin turbos

[mcsblues]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

My TO is the standard 1400W Tiffany model (A steal off Gumtree - in its box, used twice, immaculate - $25!   )

Not sure I have reached the sweet spot, it will definitely do 650g with no trouble and probably quite a bit more, but I am concerned about the very slow ramp up and total roast time around 25 mins - largely caused by the thermostat cutting the heat in and out, but I will try extra insulation first and report back.

Gary does your thermostat do the same thing? Given the workload you have in store for it are you giving some thought to Borats super turbo option?

[sidewayss]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

I figure most KKTOs roast to 20-25 minutes Java.
Mine does 24 minutes for 600gm greens, 21-22 for 500gm greens.
Compared to my coretto, the result of the KKTO is more smoother and better balance in taste, not to mention negligible tipping.

I figured out too that if the thermostat is cutting in and out, the temps must be at the displayed temperature (in my case, maximum at 250 degrees celcius.). In that regards the power rating should not be an issue as long as the roaster is insulated well.

I would like to find out from others how they are getting 17-18 minute times from their units.

Yes, i would certainly like to try out Borats mod so that i can do larger batches and slightly shorter times.
With the manual switch to turn on and off the elements, DMM logging would be needed to monitor the rate of temperature climb.

I dont know. : I guess running a modified single unit would cut down on energy usage as well as keeping the footprint to a minimum.

Gary at G

[mcsblues]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

Agree with most of that apart from;

"I figured out too that if the thermostat is cutting in and out, the temps must be at the displayed temperature ..."

- which is the problem with the thermostat. If you look at the last data logger plot of mine above you can see it started kicking in and out at 140 and actually caused a slight drop in temp before the slow ramp up (during which time it cut in and out repeatedly despite the displayed temp being on max (250). I figure it is more likely some internal electronic temp sensor in the TO unit  which trips well before the oven itself gets up to temp.

In terms of what we should aim for, I was reading a post by Attilio (who knows a bit about roasting) and he says (a) the longer the roast the easier it is to make it even (which I agree the KKTO does in spades) but (b) much past 20 mins and your are losing a lot of the goodies (not sure if he said "goodies"!) through baking rather than roasting.

I will see if I can give the extra insulation mod a go later on today and report back.

[flynnaus]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

I would like to find out from others how they are getting 17-18 minute times from their units.

I have been using the same KKTO for two years now. I was getting 20+ min roasts until I:
- sealed the lid and the gap between the two pots with the silicon tubing
- wrapped the outer pot with a blanket
- put in a false floor to reduce the volume (but I find I only need this in winter).
- stick with batch sizes between 450 and 650g.
- preheat the KKTO to between 120 and 140^O
- run the beans at a slow ramp until they reach about 100^o then bump up to max temp in two increments.

To avoid tipping, you really need to be aware of the onset of first crack and start reducing the heat controller just before then, burp the KKTO when first crack starts until the temp drops back then maintain at < 5^o until the desired roast depth is reached.


I cant hear the cracks and my thermocouple reads at about 20^o below actual temp (start of 2nd crack is about 187^o and yes, the TC is located very close to the bottom). But rather than try to achieve actual temps, I work with that knowledge and also use visual cues such as smoke and temperature variation to follow the roast development . I can see the exothermic reaction at first crack because the temp ramp increases. I usually get good results; not necessarily even roasts, but good in the cup.

Im not saying my approach is the best; just what works for me. The key is to know your roaster, be patient and prepared to tweak.

[mcsblues]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

Thanks for that Flynn.

I have been doing a bit of tweaking this morning (yes, I should be working! :-[ )

I agree about the temps and about them being a better guide as to the approach at least of 1C and 2C - but I have now lowered the probe - now bolted to the bottom - will set new benchmarks from that.

Have now done most of the rest apart from the false floor - albeit today is pretty close to winter! :

Will do a test shortly.

[mcsblues]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

OK very quickly that w... thing calls  : ;D



Insulation a success - clearly speeds up roast and eliminates the saw tooth rate of change seen above.

Change of probe position ... fail  ;D



Lowers indicated temp another 10 degrees. Mind you it makes sense especially if you bolt it to the bottom (it does look neater) that temp will be of the coldest, furtherest from the heat source thing there (the bottom of the pot, not the beans).

However as Flynn says, that just means you change your benchmarks (all the more important with even more insulation muffling sounds until 1C (when I take it away). All in all, not a wasted morning!

[sidewayss]

Re: Another Happy KKTO Owner

I maxed out on turbo oven as recommended.
It is a halogen model, so i dont know if it is as efficient as a more conventional one.

Pre-heat 250 deg C for 10 minutes.

Drop beans in and full power til the end.

Roaster bought as per fully assembled complete with silicone tubing on lip and between.
Roast chamber at 9 litres.

This is why im at a conundrum at the moment.

Either do Borats mod and then deal with the variations/idiosyncrasies of DMM logging, but gaining increased batch size, shorter roast times and manual control of the oven element....

Or, run two units together with smaller batches to attain 17-20 minute times.

For me, i would err towards running 2 units, as its more straight forward and i dont have to deal with other electronics, cables, probes and looking at a monitor.

The only other solution if i want to keep it to standard, is perhaps to get another turbo oven that is more powerful.

Thats me anyway, and i do roast back to back for other people rather than for myself, as demand calls it.

Gary at G