Aillio R1 Bullet

[Ash]

Yup, not getting my hopes up for a pre Christmas delivery.

[chron]

I think I can speak for a majority of prospective Bullet buyers to say we'll believe it when we see it on the shelf here.

Yep. And, with the absurd RRP currently estimated to be around $6k, I'm not sure how many prospective buyers there'll be...

[chron]

Ah, here we go. Now I remember why I don't frequent these forums anymore, such a welcoming place.

I wasn't comparing it to other roasters, the Bullet stands on its own. Outside of prototypes, the Jake doesn't really exist yet, and the CRA is in a completely different league. But hey since we're quoting Euros for the issue prone Gene, I will compare it to the Bullet US price of $2,800. Which, roughly after AU conversion and GST, is $4,300. I expect our wonderful importers to gouge us a little on price, not nearly $2k though.

But, by all means, continue defending high costs on Australian nanny state compliance and regulation bs.

[Caffeinator]

I make that $4k before shipping and then add duty and GST. Gets me closer to $5k landed and then warranty, support and parts are still overseas. These cost.

Given that the importer is yet to publish any pricing, I would suggest that retailers might just be speculating somewhat on price. Difference is that the local importer is not a retailer and that local warranty and Australian Consumer law needs to be provided for.

We'll all know when pricing is published, but I'm struggling to buy a 1kg electric roaster which is actually legal to use much under $10k.

[flynnaus]

Let's not speculate. Chron is right that the landed price may put the Aillio Bullet out of most home roasters budget (CoffeeParts is showing a $5,490 pre-order price with an ETA of the end of this year
https://www.coffeeparts.com.au/ailli...coffee-roaster).

[Bosco_Lever]

Something to consider. Is this a true 1kg roaster that can pump out 1kg roasts, regardless of origin, consistently? It seems the sweet spot is less than a kilo. All roasters are different, and with time and experience you will find the sweet spot for your unit. My (and many others') KKTO can roast 1kg, but has a sweet spot according to bean type, roast level, etc.
Other roasters claiming 1kg capacity, can actually roast consistent 1kg+ roasts, back to back, the CRA for example.
The scenario is that many people seek a true 1kg roaster to save time, but find it hard to justify $5k+ to do so. This roaster had potential when it began, and its original concept of selling direct with no middle men was attractive. Unfortunately nanny state regulations exist in many countries, and push up compliance costs.
There are many creative ways to organise and fund group buys, but it seems Aillio is heading down a different path and lost interest for that option.
Whilst it has many attractive features, if one is considering a 1kg roaster, the Aillio is in a price bracket where potential buyers may be willing to spend a bit more and look at larger shop style roasters.
Time share on 2kg roasters is an option that will be increasing in popularity. To go somewhere local, and book an hour to do a couple of roasts to achieve a month's supply of beans is a very promising option. Be it farmers markets, gatherings etc, the option is something that many would consider. There are cafes and brown bean suppliers who timeshare roasters successfully, after all, having a roaster sitting idle for 95% of the time is a waste of capital.

[Caffeinator]

Something to consider. Is this a true 1kg roaster that can pump out 1kg roasts, regardless of origin, consistently?

I roast 800g with plenty of headspace to profile as I choose in my V2. Haven't needed to try 1kg. Will give it a go and report back.

[Bosco_Lever]

Thank you. Sometimes an 800g roast that yields perfect results in the cup, is different when the load is increased. If you increase the load to 1kg and maintain the same profile, time etc it would be interesting to see if the exact same results in the cup are achieved as the 800g.

[Caffeinator]

Easily done with the replay function. Will let you know

[Andy]

From the latest Aillio newsletter:
...As of last Wednesday afternoon, we have passed all the tests required for CB/CE certification of the V2-220V (200V-240V) model...

Any mention of the SAA AU/NZ certification? CE is a good start but the local certification requires more hoop jumping on top of CE
(been there, done that, it's a horrible process).

There remains a significant amount of paperwork and PCB manufacturing/assembly

My guess is it failed EMF/EMR noise from the components as CE certification changed the testing of electrical noise a couple of years back giving grief and re-certification woes for a lot of manufacturers of previously certified equipment.

Electrical noise from an old TV was taking down the Internet in a Welsh Village for 18 months
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54239180
...so you can see why the certification has gotten stricter.

[Javaphile]

...so you can see why the certification has gotten stricter.

As well it should with stuff like this happening: https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/cof...a-tv-reception


Java "" phile

[Caffeinator]

My guess is it failed EMF/EMR noise from the components as CE certification changed the testing of electrical noise a couple of years back giving grief and re-certification woes for a lot of manufacturers of previously certified equipment.

Gottit in one Andy.

[Ash]

Any mention of the SAA AU/NZ certification? CE is a good start but the local certification requires more hoop jumping on top of CE
(been there, done that, it's a horrible process).

No idea on the AU/NZ side of the house unfortunately, just what is publicly available from the Aillio newsletters.

[Ash]

Some good news from ECA:

'At the beginning of October, we popped a quiet champagne, with the BIG news that the Aillio Bullet R1 V2 has passed the final round of tests and is now CB/CE certified. This is the compliance legally required to bring the Bullet R1 into Australia. And on top of this, as of Friday last week, the paperwork has been signed, sealed and delivered!

Finally, we can answer our most frequently asked question
“When does the Bullet arrive?”

We are over the moon to let you know that the first shipment of

Aillio Bullets will be landing in Australia, February 2021!

And as for the price, the list price for the Bullet will be set at $5,499.00 including GST.'

Looks like it will be just on 5 years from order to delivery for me😀😀😀

[Nolbee]

Just received advice today my Bullet will be delivered next week. Looks like the olld Hottop will be going into retirement

[Caffeinator]

Some good news from ECA:...

And as for the price, the list price for the Bullet will be set at $5,499.00 including GST.'

Looks like it will be just on 5 years from order to delivery for me😀😀😀

Yes. What a wait!

Lots of home roasters will be seasoning their new roasters today. They ended up at $4999 and site sponsor ECA have appointed selected resellers for sales and support in each state.

Resellers need to have a demo model on site and to complete support training to allow them to provide backup for any clients requiring it. The good thing is that most maintenance tasks and repairs are simple and the Aillio self-diagnoses on faults should an issue ever occur.

[338]

Nice to hear all resellers are required to have support training, shows everyone's commitment to this product

[Mono]

As much as I would love to have one of these I’m going to sit on my CC until Jake the roaster becomes a reality...... until then I’m good, for now.....maybe

[Caffeinator]

Not a Cheshire cat?

[amberale]

You can’t say No.

[Mono]

I must behave....I must be strong..... help!!!

[tompoland]

Anyone "bit the bullet" and bought one?

[Ash]

Well it seems that pre-orders don't mean squat to some companies.

As much as I wanted one, I won't be getting a Bullet as the company I had my order with is not willing to supply it as "you purchased the V1 which is not the machine we are now supply ( V2 )" not to mention that I am not in the same state as the company. Never mind the fact that I had a pre-order in on a 'PREORDER Aillio Bullet R1 coffee roaster' as per my original purchase confirmation email. Notice that it didn't mention which version of the roaster I had bought?

What makes matters even more annoying is that the company in question didn't bother to get in contact with me about the order when it became obvious around two years ago that the machine would have significant upgrades compared to the original machine, and offer to work out a mutually agreeable solution. The whole schemozzle only started when I contacted them before Easter about the, IMHO, uncompetitive practice of geographic sales restrictions and whether I would still be receiving a roaster. It would seem that the loss they would have incurred on providing me with the agreed pre-order was too much for them to bear and they would rather hide behind a pretext and avoid coming to a mutually beneficial outcome.

This whole affair has left a bitter (pun intended) taste in my mouth, and has cost me more than the original purchase price with no other compensation other than 'Have a great day.'

[Caffeinator]

I would suggest that you speak with ECA (importer). There is no reason whatsoever that your deposit could not have been applied to the purchase of a V2 and any company hiding behind excuses would be no doubt on dodgy legal terms if they did not refund your deposit in full if they were unable to supply for any reason. All resellers have authority to supply to their existing preorder clients regardless of the state they reside in. Current orders must however be placed locally.

Pricing did move from initial estimates some 5 years ago and that's no surprise as everything until a month or so ago was only ever guesstimates.

I guess if that's the gripe, your expectations were and are unrealistic. The vendor should never have quoted more than an estimated price as they would never have had one.

[Ash]

I have been in contact with ECA, and have had no issues with them at all. It comes down to bad communication from the retailer, IMO. I can certainly understand price changes due to changes in design of the product which rendered their original pre-order price guarantee obsolete. But I wasn't contacted after the changes to the roaster (V1 to V2) were announced, or after the roaster went on sale. Not a thing. That is what has really pissed me off, no communication.

If a customer has a pre-order I would have thought that companies would keep customers in the loop with regard to what is happening with their pre-order? Particularly if there are significant changes to the product that was ordered. That has certainly been my experience with other companies that I have purchased from using pre-ordered products. And yes, I have cancelled pre-orders due to product changes as well as price changes, but I have also gone through with purchases as well, even with price increases. I wasn't given the option in this case.

I have since received my money back, which will at least give me the opportunity to purchase from another retailer.

[Nolbee]

I initially placed an order in 2016 and paid in full, after an extended waiting period I cancelled the order and received a full refund. I contacted ECA and put my name on their waiting list.
Finally in March I received an email informing me they had reserved a Bullet for me and it would be delivered to the retailer the following week. I subsequently picked it up and have since done all the seasoning roasts plus four others.
The machine has performed flawlessly and exceeds all my expectations. A big difference from the Hottop is that the pre heat time takes up to 20 minutes (not that it is a problem, just different). Now wondering what to do with the Hottop.
Kudos to ECA

[PhuBAR]

HI Nolbee, how do you find it in comparison to your Hottop?

[Nolbee]

The Hottop is an excellent machine but the Bullet is a quantum leap. With the roast time software it gives you much more control of the roast as it progresses, you can slow it down or speed it up with so many variables available in the software, fantastic for experimenting.