New roaster - Probat × Diedrich × Giesen × Toper - please advise

[TC]

Could be the reason CRA is not an option for them?

GrahamK

Yes- but I was responding to AGBR's question.

[GrahamK]

- we want available and reliable service in Europe,

Could be the reason CRA is not an option for them?

GrahamK

[TC]

G'day and welcome AGBR,

You can do a whole heap worse than to seriously consider any of the Coffee Roasters Aust. product with Coffee Sweet profiling.

Mark knows his stuff and this technology just works. The software is also always current if you have a 'net connection. You also won't require a dinosaur to run it.

Most of the Has Garanti and Proaster roasters imported by Coffee Roasters Aust. now leave for their new owners fitted with Coffee Sweet. It's ground breaking at these capacities and I can't wait to get my new one. It will make the rock solid consistency job a whole lot easier. Having had 3 Has Garantis so far, this will be #4 and I see no reason to choose another brand. They work brilliantly.

Cheers

Chris

[ABGR]

Hi Tok,

I see here not a single mention of any roasters supplied in AUS by Coffee Roasters Australia.

I have a 1kg Probatino and am gearing up to move to a minimum 12kg roaster and now asking the same question. Which brand deserves my hard earned $$$.

I hear the software with the Probat is average, even requires a computer running windows 98 or vista. The app or tablet software is not worth using due to interference due to the roaster motor running.

Coffee Sweet Roast Profiling Technology which is an optional extra on a 15kg Proaster looks like a brilliant way of being able to produce consistency and automation.

How many times have do we hear about a roaster not being able to replicate a profile.

Any feedback would be great.

There's just so many variables to consider.


Cheers

ABGR.

[TOK]

Thanks TOK. I really appreciate the time and effort you spent to write such an interesting and informed reply to my question .

It has been a real help.

[TOK]

...And, to add just another small but incredibly important detail:

For the size of machine you are considering, and the fact you are considering expensive equipment already, you need to decide whether you want "old school" roasting technology (albeit well tried and proven) or "state of the art" roasting technology.

The machines you listed are all old school as in...drum batch roasters. Roasting by conduction.

Latest technology combines drum roasting with air roasting. These machines look like drum batch roasters, but they roast using both conduction AND convection.
These machines are also by now well tried and proven and are used by many pro roasters, but I wouldn't necessarily look at manufacturers offering "convenient pricing...".

It could be said that the more expensive brands in the machines you listed, are quite expensive in the scheme of things if they are "only" conduction roasters. There are manufacturers offering machines that do both conduction and convection, for less or no more than expensive conduction machines.

And that will take you to other good roasting plant manufacturers that you did not list.

Hope that helps.

[TOK]

A "quick reply" (huge topic), and before i start I would like you to note that you should not take too much notice of what you read on the internet on this topic. Busy, successful roasters dont have time to write reviews on their machines, and you need to go and visit the manufacturers or agents you are thinking of buying from. They in turn will take you to, or set up appointments with various equipment clients, that you can visit and drive crazy with questions. Then you make up your own mind.....


As far as I know Probat wont put PLC / profiling on anything under 60 kg (please check for yourself). I dont know about Giesen.

Giesen used to make the smaller Probats under Licence, and on a quick reply, both are at the top of your list in terms of quality, capable equipment.

Toper is at the bottom of your list and it is reflected in the price. the standard of build of the european and american machines is significantly better HOWEVER. it works well enough and the company is magic to deal with. They care about their clients. In addition to a number of other roasters, I have a 5 kilo Toper bought direct from the factory in Izmir, and it works very well for basic roasting technology. They will sell you profiling technology for just about any of their models and when I visited them , I was able to run some roasts through a 2.5 kilo machine for purposes of testing the profiling technology.

Be aware there is no such thing as "standard" or "default" profiles. The profiling technology you buy with a roasting plant doesnt have "defaults" pre-programmed. You work them out yourself as you go, and the machine memorises what you want and can then repeat that.

Note there are basically two type of "profiling" systems. On larger roasting plants the PLC systems actually manage the roasting process with automatic loading and unloading controls and roast management inbetween....while for smaller plants where it is not worth fitting automatic controls, the profiling technology doesnt load or unload, it just manages the roast (but in a much more basic way than on larger or more sophisticated equipment).

If you have the capital you would be crazy not to go for the european machines, however for a small machine the Toper will be good value for money and will do a great job while you are learning the roasting ropes in a start up business.

Dare I say, if the price on the american machine is similar to that of the european machines, you would be crazy not to go for a european machine every time.

I am not in Europe, however I owned a medium size older Probat for many years. The machine worked reliably for me for over a quarter century, which is just as well because the service support here was non existent. I have moved to another european machine also of extremely high quality, and the servoce is only marginally better. Dont expect "service support" of any kind unless you happen to be close to the factory or agent. Most pro roasters do their own thing...

Note....there are a few other european manufacturers that make excellent plant.

That's about as short as I can make it in a huge topic really.

[meloun]

Hello!

We are beginning with coffee roasting, expecting monthly production of 1,5 ton. We decided to choose 12-15 kg coffee roaster (to have a satisfactory reserve for future growth) and did a huge research across many coffee roaster producers. From what we found, we tend to choose Probatone12 roaster, but we are not 100% sure in our decision. It would greatly help us if you write the pros and cons of the roasters considered and also your own opinion about the selection.

Our requirements and possibilities:
- we want roaster with profiling system and preset profiles to have some help for start and comfort possibility to tune the roasting process in the future,
- we want "conventional" roaster which will have no specialities during the roasting process (so everyone who knows how to use the coffee roaster will know how to use the chosen roaster),
- we want available and reliable service in Europe,
- sure we want high quality roaster,
- the price doesn't matter but higher price must be worth it.


The considered roasters:

Probatone12 - our favorite, but we need to be sure it's the best solution for us

Diedrich IR-12 - we are little afraid of the IR technology and its service life and also if the roasting process is the same with this technology than without it

Giesen W15 - we are little afraid of non-standard behaviour and system control of the roaster compared to other brands of roasters (as people write down on many forums)

Toper TKM-SX 15 - we don't see any disadvantages here but consindering the much lower price than the Probat, we think there must be any


Many thanks in advance for all your advices and opinions.