New roaster - Probat × Diedrich × Giesen × Toper - please advise

[chokkidog]

Absolutely Mal and good evening!.... the more I learnt about roasting the more frustrating ( in an objective sort of way ) it became.

In the end I vowed never to buy an automated roaster for myself, just source and use great software to monitor, record and repeat.

Andy's software is great and I'm also interested to see how the Coffee Sweet goes on Chris' new toy, when it arrives.

After a couple of years now I have realised the the benefit of having a modulating burner, that can be controlled from the computer,

i.e. via the heat slider on Roastmonitor. That feature will be on my next roaster, for sure.

Cheers.

As a p.s. to post #14 I remember that it was possible to turn the cooling pan mixer arm off manually.

It was also the only roaster I have seen with a cover (perforated) over the cooling pan..... talk about being disengaged and remote from the process.

It came off when the owner went overseas. ;-) Other, much bigger roasters may have them.......but I've not seen one.

[TOK]

mate if you use a properly designed built integrated and executed fully auto european roasting plant you will never go back.....dont let the "auto" thing fool you. A good set up is all bypassable at will (if and when you want to for various reasons) and the things that the other requisite technology (ie, surrounding the "full auto" deal) in the total plant allows you to do things as a roast master that you never thought were possible. I cannot speak highly enough about Brambati and yes.....there was a SIGNIFICANT elevation in the quality of my roasts and whats in the cup over a period of months as I learned how to use the plant and left the old Probat behind. And take note, you have to re learn everything you know when you upgrade to this level of technology.

For the rest of it. When my toy arrived 5 years ago it had the requisite perforated cooling tray cover.....and it is still leaning against the wall where we left it after helping the commissioning engineer to remove the thing. Its an OH & S thing, but......

Additionally. All should please note that there is quite a diff between roast monitoring and simple roast profiling technology where you are still doing everything manually yourself, and what is involved in fully integrated automatic roasters with fully programmable multi level raost profiles that contrl an entoire automatiated roasting process with modulating motors, fans and burners so that every section of a profile can have different temp, drum and air speeds happening, and they can be changed to different separate settings throughout the one batch roast......with automatic control ONCE YOU HAVE WORKED OUT WHAT YOU WANT IT TO DO for a particular coffee. There is no such thing as a default profile.

If you are ever in my part of the woods I will be happy to exhibit.

[chokkidog]

Maaaate... ;-0 that's as well maybe, but I was referring to then and the effect this particular roaster had on my own development.

I still prefer hands on, with help, but do acknowledge that there is 'auto' and then there is Auto. ;-)

For what it's worth and apologies to the OP for the tangent here are some pics of the Buhler. I believe (was told) it was the first to be imported into

Australia and one of the early builds by a company with a long history of industrial grain milling machinery fabrication, they had something

to do with a stake hold purchase of Petroncini, hence their foray into roasting equipment.

The roaster I use now has variable exhaust fan speed, variable drum speed ( range of 10 Hz ) and variable burner control but is manually

adjusted, not modulating. Although the current profile software doesn't allow automation with computer actuated frequency drives on the motors,

the development of the profile still allows the recording of all these parameters ( fave word at the moment so it seems ) so that replication is

possible by an operator (me) who is awake and in front of the gear.

Next time I'm in Canberra, your invitation is accepted, I'd love to see your setup.

[meloun]

Hello TOK,

many many thanks for your exhaustive answer, it really helped us a lot. We started with sending inquiries to the considered manufacturers and after the first replies decided not to choose Diedrich or Giesen because of a huge lack of interest and willingness in their communication, now we're planning to meet the Probat and Toper reps.

We also found more information about the PLC and thanks for the note that there's no default profiles - we saw it once within some small roaster and then thought it is a standard - it's not, as you wrote. But it's no problem to get the PLC with the small roasters, all the roasters we were considering.

About the roasters with combined air roasting, thanks for this hint, but we decided to learn on the "old school" technology first and consider buying this after a few years, when we know mooooooore about the roasting. Now we're at the very start, never used any roaster, so we think it will be better to start with a really classic roaster.

---------------------

If anyone can compare Probat to Toper, we'll be really happy

[DesigningByCoffee]

Now we're at the very start, never used any roaster, so we think it will be better to start with a really classic roaster.

If you're really just thinking of getting going, might it be worth starting with a 1-2kg shop style roaster and learning the technique of roasting first?
A 10-15kg roaster is a massive investment, and aiming at 1.5 tonne a month could be a very expensive learning curve - and if you've never roasted before on any style of roaster, it might explain some of the reluctance of the bigger manufacturers to invest the time and resources. Not wanting to throw wet blankets around, but the 'no roasting on anything yet' phrase rang some alarm bells I'm afraid… as I'm sure will do for others.
Really want to encourage you roasting journey though - is great fun and I'm sure you could make a great little business out of it. But maybe first things first?
Cheers
Matt

[TOK]

Hello TOK, many many thanks for your exhaustive answer, it really helped us a lot. We started with sending inquiries to the considered manufacturers and after the first replies decided not to choose Diedrich or Giesen because of a huge lack of interest and willingness in their communication, now we're planning to meet the Probat and Toper reps.

From my own personal experiences not surprised, and please note:

Probat appears to have woken up because they have lost a huge amount of business to Brambati and

Toper are just great people to deal with despite that their equipment is at the bargain price end.

Technically the Probat will be light years ahead of the Toper however there is no doubt the Toper will be a very good, simple starter machine and a very good price by comparison, for someone that has never touched a roaster before in his life.

However for the simple fact of your admitted lack of expertise and knowledge, you wont be able to work out any shortcomings that may arise in the SET UP of the Toper, unless you are dealing with an importer local to you that is setting it up for you and guaranteeing the work. As a rank beginner, you would probably have more faith in a Probat to be properly set up without problem from the get go.

Just some thoughts from an experienced hand....

I also agree with Matt immediately above that you seem to be very ambitious for someone that doesnt have any experience. Note roasting is a profession that really needs you to serve an "apprecticeship" over an extended period, and then you still have only learned the equipment you are using. Go to something else and you start again, although it is then an easier ride....

Good luck.

[ahhhespressso]

Really love reading your words TOK

Reminds me of my old buddy who thought me roasting, roasting is from the person...not the machine... Its cooking beans ;D
Too much worrying about other stuff other than the coffee itself you re not roasting coffee but roasting your brain haha

[TC]

Note roasting is a profession that really needs you to serve an "apprenticeship" over an extended period, and then you still have only learned the equipment you are using. Go to something else and you start again, although it is then an easier ride....

Cannot agree more on this....It's like espresso. The more you do, the more there is to learn.

Good luck!