Diedrich, Giesen or Probat?

[Curiouslife]

HI every body, I am from India and like Sarah I am also looking for a shop roaster and homing on to Turkish roasters due to the price factor. I have also come across a brand called Ozturk, it is in the same range Has Granati. Has anyone got any idea about this one?

[chokkidog]

Hi Sarah,

Sounds like tough going! Try not to let the communication difficulties discourage you.

Is there a reseller/distributor of either machine in your region? Someone who has an established line of communication?

The problems you are experiencing, although mighty frustrating, don't detract from the actual quality of roast that the machines can deliver.

Persevere.... !! ( I know; more easily said than done!! ) If Gee ( post#31) has some real time experience with what you are going through it could be a great help.

There are people in Australia, who have regular contact with both of these companies, and who have established successful import and distributorships

with both of these manufacturers.... there must be some light at the end of the tunnel!! Hang in there.

[Gee]

Hello Sarah,

I've read through the thread, and I understand your confusion, been there too. What country in the Middle East are you in? Perhaps I could help.

[Sarah26]

Hi all,

They did get back to me finally after several calls and emails. HG didn't even include any kind of info, all he wrote was "hi sarah the price is $7000 thank you". and now he deducted $500? I'm not happy at all with their service, something is not right.

And Toper on the other hand refused to provide a price breakdown saying there isn't any and that's the price of the machine.

I don't know both of them are making me very uncomfortable.

[TOK]

Hello Sarah,

Re: ".....What do you suggest I do after I get the price breakdown? how would I know if some parts were reasonably priced or not? I have no idea about that..."

Its not about the price of individual inclusions. Its about seeing WHAT is included by both for the price quoted by each ! They must both be including the same (equivalent) total plant for the prices to be comparable.

Re" "...I asked for the price breakdown yesterday but as I said before, their customer service is pretty bad. HG haven't even sent me a detailed PDF about the roaster, he said an email with 4 bullets about it? I keep on calling him.

I dont know if you noticed, but I sent you a PM this morning my time.

[Sarah26]

To be honest I thought the pricing for both wasn't convincing, as you guys said one of them was too cheap and the other one was too exi.

I asked for the price breakdown yesterday but as I said before, their customer service is pretty bad. HG haven't even sent me a detailed PDF about the roaster, he said an email with 4 bullets about it? I keep on calling him.

What do you suggest I do after I get the price breakdown? how would I know if some parts were reasonably priced or not? I have no idea about that.

if I copied them here, will you be able to tell? or is it much to ask ..

[chokkidog]

+1 to #25 & #26 Absolutely, as I have already mentioned.... I have no idea what would be supplied to you in the way of gas train/electrics.

Make sure the HG quote includes all specs and components, as supplied, as TOK & Chris mention and that what is supplied are of suitable quality.

If the HG is incomplete you will have a bit more work and $$

[TOK]

And adding to my own previous post. Beware the prices you have so far obtained. To me, it seems impossible for there to be a greater than 100% difference in price between two apparently directly competing models....something isnt right (and I would be more suspicious of the price that is too cheap, than the one that seems too exi). Make sure you are comparing apples with apples please before deciding which apple is best for you.

[TC]

Agreed,

I use and love a Has Garanti. To make a comparison between ours and the base product supplied out of Turkey would be akin to suggesting that two cars which look similar but have completely different drive trains and electricals are identical.

Coffee Roasters Australia does fantastic work on Australian Has Garanti roasters. All of the gas train is locally fabricated and installed as are the overwhelming majority of the electrics.

I cannot offer any advice whatsoever about the Turkish product other than to say it looks similar.

[TOK]

Jut a quick word of caution, the pricing makes no sense either way for my liking.

The Toper is too exi, but the HG is too cheap, needing further investigation on your part....I believe professional, detailed quotes as to the inclusions are in order.

[Sarah26]

chokkidog,

Thank you for your reply

It looks really good, if as you say the end result will be the very same, I'm sure I'll get the HG instead of toper since the price is very convenient.

I'm really glad you guys suggested those two to me!

[chokkidog]

Hi Sarah, Nice to hear from you again and that things are progressing, albeit in its own way.

To answer your question....No, the end result between the roasters will be very same, same.

Having seen two recent model HGs, one 10 kilo (HSR10) and a 15 kg (HSR15) and I can vouch for their

build quality, which is really excellent.

I have tasted coffee, regularly, from the HSR10 and also from a Toper 15kg and the results are both

excellent with the differences between the products being provided by the roaster (person) and their beans

and not the roaster (machine).

My own coffee, from a 2.5 year old HSR5, is very excellent ;-D of course and has won a couple of awards!!

https://www.coffeeroasters.com.au/te...-installations (the red one, bottom right).

In a previous post I mentioned about electrics and gas train components which will influence the quality of

operation. I have no idea what will be fitted to any machine available to you, where you are.

[Sarah26]

Hi Again,

I've been contacting toper and HG lately, the price gap between them is huge! HG hsr5 was $7,500 and toper sx was $15,800. But the down side to buy a turkish brand is that dealing with them is terrible to be honest.

As for HG, he just sent the price and that HSR is better in his opinion. I asked for a detailed pdf for the roaster and he doesn't respond unless I call each time and remind him. and I still didn't get the pdf nor freight rate..etc

I figure it will be hectic dealing with them but if that's what suits my business then be it.

Honestly I was leaning more towards toper, but the price difference is big! unless toper would offer something WAY better or else I think HG would do the job.

However I still didn't get any spec. and I couldn't find it online.

In your experience, would toper provide a MUCH better result than HG hsr?

[Sarah26]

I think I have a better picture now, I can start reading and learning about the roasters I'm after with at least better knowledge and sources to go back to thanks to the links you provided.

Thank you all for your great effort, and a special thanks to TOK and chokkidog!

[TOK]

Good morning Sarah.

Thank you for the kind words.

If you are seriously looking at a Toper, go the TKMSX. My TKMSX-5 works extremely well or should I say....as it should. I mentioned both Toper and Has Garanti because these are the two turkish brands with most market penetration in our country. There are other brands, but we have little experience with them here.

As you mentioned your "roastmaster" likes Probat, let me digress slightly. My view is that when someone eventually gets to larger sized roasters, that is when they start looking at what the more expensive brand roaster manufacturers can offer. At that point, you start asking what are the differences in the roaster technology that result in more expense, what does it do for my coffee, what does it do for the management of my roasterie, and what does it do for me. And that may be the point where you decide (as an individual that has a different set of expectations and wants and needs), to buy a more expensive plant than a cheaper and probably more conventional one....despite that they will all do the job (if you are looking at good established brands).

My question to you would then be: If for example a good, small batch turkish brand machine of well established, old school design, that is known to work as intended, will start you off and work extrememly well for you at your stage of expertise (a small start up business) and help yo to learn the trade, then compare to the european brand, which is significantly more expensive. Does it offer any more technology or some difference in the way it roasts, in that small batch size (say 5 kg) than the turkish brand? Then only you can decide if you want to or can afford to pay the extra to buy the european machine. Note I am not in any way denigrating a great brand (and I used one for 25 years), just that you need to know what you might expect to get by spending the extra dollars...for your situation, at this time.

Which is why I wrote above: "My TKMSX-5 works extremely well or should I say....as it should." As they all (the brands you mentioned) should.......

Beware the term "roastmaster".
Comments by Matt above are correct however someone with requisite experience will be able to work out a simple old school roaster fairly quickly.
Comments by Chokkidog also correct.....successful roasters with a lot of experience usually dont self appint themselves with non provable and possibly even non existent (in an academic sense) titles, but we do see enough people with little experience advertising themselves as such....its all part of "the show".

That aside and assuming his bona fides are good, the real problem is the cost to you of bringing him on board.

Hope that helps.