Help in buying commercial roaster

[eugenm]

Hello coffeechris,
I feel somehow "guilty" because I for one wanted this thread to be alive given the fact that I'm trying to sort out the "what roaster is good for me ?" question also.

[coffeechris]

The response I have received leads me to conclude that all machines are created equal.

After this point, im surprised anyone wanted to continue this thread and offer anymore advice on what you asked..

[Vinitasse]

@Vinitasse,
But I assume that a basic de-rusting process like light acids (vinegar) or electrolysis, or other unobtrusive methods can solve easily the problem ?

I wouldn't know... my roaster has never sat still long enough to get rusty

[Andy]

Alright I will ask a more specific question. Which roaster do you believe gives you the most control over airflow and burner. Do you think its best to control airflow and burner controls with touch screen computer. Will computer control allow more consistent roasts.

Hello Johnsa.

I doubt there is anyone on the forum, or anywhere in the world that has used all the roasters you mention in a productive, commercial environment. At best you are going to continue a "ford / holden" debate that just cannot be answered.

Do you think its best to control airflow and burner controls with touch screen computer

No.

Will computer control allow more consistent roasts.

No.

Knowing what you are doing live and what worked well last time will help give you some consistency, you can do that with a $80 meter and free CoffeeSnobs software.
CoffeeSnobs - BeanBay - Other Stuff - USB Temperature Data Logger


I'm of the opinion that someone that knows what he's doing can produce excellent roasts with a rubbish-bin and a blow-torch for under $100. As some of the above posts hint, you would do far better to learn how to roast at a domestic level before purchasing a commercial roaster... and as a bonus then you will be able to answer your own questions about the pro's, con's and "worth" of commercial roaster features.

[eugenm]

@Vinitasse,
But I assume that a basic de-rusting process like light acids (vinegar) or electrolysis, or other unobtrusive methods can solve easily the problem ?

[Vinitasse]

I have seen some surface rust inside the drum of Turkish roasters particularly Has Garanti.

Only if they're not being used on a regular basis

[eugenm]

I don't think rust is something you can avoid in the case of 'crude' steel, unless you pay extra attention to the humidity conditions. If you don't want to have rust no matter how you handle your machine, then you need a steel that has extra layers, like zinc or have a stainless steel.
But I do believe that extra 'love' in handling and maintaining the drum can give you a 'rust-free' environment.
This is just my guessing, I maybe completely wrong about it !

[johnsa]

I have seen some surface rust inside the drum of Turkish roasters particularly Has Garanti.

[eugenm]

I will try and make a short summary of what I managed to collect as information as up this moment :

1. Anyway you look at the approach, an initial investment on a roasting machine makes sense if it is a 5kg one. I've made some 'simulations' and on average a machine like this can roast 1 tone of green coffee per month. A new roastery needs at least one, maybe two years until it builds some awareness on the market and 'wins' sufficient clients for a tone a month. On the other hand a 5kg machine give you enough "room" to organize the roasting "sessions", which is the case of a 3kg machine is not necessarily the case. Also on the long run I have enough capacity to build a solid clientele.

2. For a newcomer in the roasting business a basic machine helps you to understand the roasting process, because it 'forces' you to understand the details of the machine, the different 'variables' that can be modified in order to gain more control on your roast profile, basically it helps you to understand how roasting works ;

3. Focus on the built quality of the machine and its materials. I assume that one of the most important parts is the drum itself, so you want a good quality material that can handle different temperatures and that, in case you do a proper roasting, do not make your different origins 'borrow' one another's flavor. So, we can have :
- Steel which has great metallurgical properties, meaning it will have a long life ;
- Cast iron is a good material, even though I know it has a great heat absorption capacity, which means the roaster needs to be careful with the temperature hysteresis (once you 'cut' the gas the drum will still transfer the coffee batch absorbed heat. But still, cast iron is a great long lasting material and uniform distribution of heat ;
- Stainless steel, I don't have any information about it and I also don't have any opinion about it. I can only assume it can help a little bit with the 'oil' transfer between different coffee origins and better endurance with respect to corrosion ;
- Copper, but this is serious 'bucks'

I assume steel would be the most logical choice, it is easy to work with, relatively easy to maintain and it is cheaper then other materials. This is way a Turkish roasting machine is somehow appealing to me, because I understand the quality of the steel work is great !

I also understand a particular attention must be payed to the gas train, but my understanding is that this can be altered easily and you can improve it or modify it.

The airflow is something I still need to learn about, I don't know exactly what to look for. I assume the flow needs to be easily adjustable, and the maintenance of the 'circuit' needs to be easy to make.

About the cooling process I still need to do my homework !

4. You need good aftersales, because I assume that if a part fails you don't want to solve your problem in a month time risking going bankrupt in the process.

With all the information above I still find it hard to choose a particular manufacturer. Because at the end of the day is a question of costs, I need to have a backup plan in case the roastery business proves to be a failure and I need to get a decent exit. BUT on the other hand I don't want a machine that will not help me to achieve a good quality roasted coffee.

[johnsa]

Talk Coffee I asked in my original question.

Which coffee roaster gives the most consistent roast?

Your response was to blame someone for bad roasting on a $50k setup you had seen. I see your point that the roastmaster can make a difference. Do you really think that answered my question.

If ever had any issues, blame the roast master is not always the answer? That is not an appropriate response to my original question.

[johnsa]

Alright I will ask a more specific question. Which roaster do you believe gives you the most control over airflow and burner. Do you think its best to control airflow and burner controls with touch screen computer. Will computer control allow more consistent roasts.

[TC]

So, I (and many newbies like me) DO REALLY appreciate you guys take the time to answer our awkward questions, and we please ask you for some patience because we are like teenagers trying to get our driving licence asap and looking for a fancy car not knowing that on the long run is all about reliability, good service from the dealer, good gas consumption, etc, inexpensive car parts, etc.

Thank you eugenm,

You will find few problems getting support from those with some experience here when (as you have) a question is asked with a little respect and some level of interest in the actual responses. I'm happy to help wherever I can.

On the other hand, when a new member arrives with a silly question and behaves like a petulant teenager/troll/d!ck, there will never be anything forthcoming from me.

I remember names and as far as the OP is concerned, he blew it in his second post and he will receive nothing. He can now return to dress shopping ;-)

Cheers

C

[eugenm]

Hey guys,
I do think that Johnsa attitude was a bit rude, because I REALLY do think getting free advice from long time roasters is a rare thing in a world were the little "secrets" of the craftsmanship won't be shared so easily by those who master it.

On the other hand, as someone that wants to become a decent roaster, the first steps are hard and getting accustomed with all the terminology and the "science" of roasting is frustrating because there are chlorogenic acids that a you need to get rid of but at the same time retain the quinic acid, you need to understand sugar caramelization, Maillard reactions, Strecker degradation, water evaporation, etc. I'm trying to understand ALL this things just with a paper and pencil in my hand. I'm convinced that many of those theories MUST be tested by putting your hand in the green coffee and roasting it, trying to understand the profiling process, "burning" some hundred kilos of coffee, until this (hopefully) make any sense. I can only do that if I have a roaster in my "backyard".

Up to some point I can understand that there are some differences between a drum roaster and a tangential one, that there is radiant, convection and conduction heat transfer, that there are several parameters a roaster can control (gas flow, air temperature, rotational speed, etc.), but in the end the synergy between all these concepts can only be achieved by roasting first hand. So, the decision is fairly straightforward, you need to buy a coffee roasting machine. And know comes the "magic" question 'What roaster should I buy among these manufacturers ... ?'

Not knowing what to expect on the long term, not understanding why one costs triple then other, not being able to get into contact with a seller (this is particular to my case) in your country because there isn't one, not knowing if on the long run I will be able to become a decent coffee roaster, ALL of this makes us ask "stupid" questions like "X brand vs Y brand". Reading so many things about how to roast coffee, at one point you feel the need to know that maybe there is a "secret" recipe to success and if someone will tell you "buy X" all your struggles will disappear by magic !

So, I (and many newbies like me) DO REALLY appreciate you guys take the time to answer our awkward questions, and we please ask you for some patience because we are like teenagers trying to get our driving licence asap and looking for a fancy car not knowing that on the long run is all about reliability, good service from the dealer, good gas consumption, etc, inexpensive car parts, etc.

[fatboy_1999]

It's just a troll kinda feelin' moving with the beat!
https://youtu.be/ubDruL2rElk

[TC]

If you're this short with people giving you genuine, useful, free advice, I don't know how you'll go with unreasonable, demanding clients.

I do....