Tweet
Re: FS: ECM Giotto Premium
(mods sorry if the topic is heading off a bit)....
Saeco automatic was OK. Didnt have a problem with it (apart from crappy Saeco service in Canberra... but thats by-the-by). It had its plusses: quick, no mess/fuss, cheaper machine. Coffee tasted OK (more of a vending machine style) - but thats a matter of personal preference, some may like this. For my purposes it was fine, until I had a coffee out of a real espresso machine at a friends place (Silvia/Rocky combo). So I decided that I needed to get a manual machine... the cons for this was the more money, extra fuss/mess, grinder required, extra time required etc. For me it made better coffee and that outweighed the cons. I was also prepared to put in the time and effort to get the techniques right. But again that was a matter of personal preference. So I got the Sunbeam EM6910 and the Sunbeam burr grinder (EM480?) which was good value at less than $700 for the pair.
Sunbeam was fine for me and going great guns... great value for money but then the offer for the Giotto Premium (the one currently on sale) came up and decided to make the jump. The advantage was better milk stretch and overall better coffee taste for me personally. Cons of course was the cost to get the machine and also to get a matching grinder capability so "had" to get a Macap M4D.
As for your question about the difference betwen the GP and GPP: my thoughts are that for my money & expertise there is not that big a difference. There are some aesthetic changes which I do like, namely the new feel/action of the steam/water handles and I like the *look* of drip tray grill design (although the grill is not the same height as the drip tray sides, so jugs dont sit properly and tend to wobble or tilt when placed on both surfaces simultaneously), which is a pain. There is meant to be better steaming horse-power but I personally cannot notice it. I found the machine to be slightly more forgiving in the beginning but the recent coffees I have made have disproved that theory. I should add, that for me, a layperson "commercial pressure-stat", "10mm tubing" doesnt mean a thing... as it certainly doesnt translate into any better results in the coffee taste (which is what I happen call my "yardstick"). Looks is also a big part of my "yardstick" but since they both look fairly similar, it doesnt matter as I liked the style of the GP anyway.
Blindfold test: I guess if someone could modify the machines to have the same feel, handles, shape etc. and I put a blindfold on and made coffee on each (and of course thats *if* I could do a coffee blindfolded!) and tasted it, I could not tell which coffee came from which machine. Again this is my experience... the aficionados amongst us my beg to differ. Having said all that, I was advised all this by other people that there would not be that much of a difference before I upgraded (especially given the difference in costs) but I still wanted to upgrade... This was also the advice given by both the people that sold me the original AND the new Giottos. There were other factors of course to consder eg. 4yo machine vs. new one and such. I guess like I said I did so because: I like shiney new things and I have a very sympathetic wife! If I had to choose again, despite the seemingly lack of tangible results in the resultant coffee taste I would probably still upgrade to the GPP from the GP (but thats just me and under my circumstances). I treat coffee making as a hobby and know that I will be doing it for a long time and love to learn and to try things out and also have to have the latest and greatest (thats just how I am wired up internally!).
Basically what I am trying to get at is that all this is relative... everything depends on your personal circumstances: how much money you want to spend, how much time you have to learn the techniques/read-up/you-tube, how interested are you in the coffee making experience, what you think is "good coffee" etc. so it would be hard for you to translate my personal experience, directly into yours. ie. YMMV.
I should add, that it each point along the way, you will probably say to yourself: "this is it, I dont need to upgrade anymore. This is the ultimate machine". I certainly said this, starting from the Saeco, through the Sunbeam and Giotto. My advice is that if you KNOW that you enjoy making and drinking coffee and KNOW that you will enjoy learning new techniques, spending time to experiment for years to come THEN get the best manual machine / grinder you can afford first up. If you DONT KNOW all this yet, then get something a bit cheaper and then perhaps upgrade if you feel the need to.
I have attached a photo of the old GP and the new GPP side-by-side FYI. Good luck on your journey!
HTH
(mods sorry if the topic is heading off a bit)....
Saeco automatic was OK. Didnt have a problem with it (apart from crappy Saeco service in Canberra... but thats by-the-by). It had its plusses: quick, no mess/fuss, cheaper machine. Coffee tasted OK (more of a vending machine style) - but thats a matter of personal preference, some may like this. For my purposes it was fine, until I had a coffee out of a real espresso machine at a friends place (Silvia/Rocky combo). So I decided that I needed to get a manual machine... the cons for this was the more money, extra fuss/mess, grinder required, extra time required etc. For me it made better coffee and that outweighed the cons. I was also prepared to put in the time and effort to get the techniques right. But again that was a matter of personal preference. So I got the Sunbeam EM6910 and the Sunbeam burr grinder (EM480?) which was good value at less than $700 for the pair.
Sunbeam was fine for me and going great guns... great value for money but then the offer for the Giotto Premium (the one currently on sale) came up and decided to make the jump. The advantage was better milk stretch and overall better coffee taste for me personally. Cons of course was the cost to get the machine and also to get a matching grinder capability so "had" to get a Macap M4D.
As for your question about the difference betwen the GP and GPP: my thoughts are that for my money & expertise there is not that big a difference. There are some aesthetic changes which I do like, namely the new feel/action of the steam/water handles and I like the *look* of drip tray grill design (although the grill is not the same height as the drip tray sides, so jugs dont sit properly and tend to wobble or tilt when placed on both surfaces simultaneously), which is a pain. There is meant to be better steaming horse-power but I personally cannot notice it. I found the machine to be slightly more forgiving in the beginning but the recent coffees I have made have disproved that theory. I should add, that for me, a layperson "commercial pressure-stat", "10mm tubing" doesnt mean a thing... as it certainly doesnt translate into any better results in the coffee taste (which is what I happen call my "yardstick"). Looks is also a big part of my "yardstick" but since they both look fairly similar, it doesnt matter as I liked the style of the GP anyway.
Blindfold test: I guess if someone could modify the machines to have the same feel, handles, shape etc. and I put a blindfold on and made coffee on each (and of course thats *if* I could do a coffee blindfolded!) and tasted it, I could not tell which coffee came from which machine. Again this is my experience... the aficionados amongst us my beg to differ. Having said all that, I was advised all this by other people that there would not be that much of a difference before I upgraded (especially given the difference in costs) but I still wanted to upgrade... This was also the advice given by both the people that sold me the original AND the new Giottos. There were other factors of course to consder eg. 4yo machine vs. new one and such. I guess like I said I did so because: I like shiney new things and I have a very sympathetic wife! If I had to choose again, despite the seemingly lack of tangible results in the resultant coffee taste I would probably still upgrade to the GPP from the GP (but thats just me and under my circumstances). I treat coffee making as a hobby and know that I will be doing it for a long time and love to learn and to try things out and also have to have the latest and greatest (thats just how I am wired up internally!).
Basically what I am trying to get at is that all this is relative... everything depends on your personal circumstances: how much money you want to spend, how much time you have to learn the techniques/read-up/you-tube, how interested are you in the coffee making experience, what you think is "good coffee" etc. so it would be hard for you to translate my personal experience, directly into yours. ie. YMMV.
I should add, that it each point along the way, you will probably say to yourself: "this is it, I dont need to upgrade anymore. This is the ultimate machine". I certainly said this, starting from the Saeco, through the Sunbeam and Giotto. My advice is that if you KNOW that you enjoy making and drinking coffee and KNOW that you will enjoy learning new techniques, spending time to experiment for years to come THEN get the best manual machine / grinder you can afford first up. If you DONT KNOW all this yet, then get something a bit cheaper and then perhaps upgrade if you feel the need to.
I have attached a photo of the old GP and the new GPP side-by-side FYI. Good luck on your journey!
HTH
Comment