!!SOLD!! ECM Giotto Machine ($900) and Rocky Doserless Grinder ($260) Melbourne

[robtempleton]

You mention it was bought two years ago as a refurbished unit, do you know how old it actually is?

[TC]

You mention it was bought two years ago as a refurbished unit, do you know how old it actually is?

This is a Giotto Classic. They were discontinued in 2003 and perform very differently to Giotto premium (2003-2007) We sold our final ECM stock late in 2007. Rocket Espresso product became available in early 2008.

You can pretty safely assume at least 12 years old- but it could easily be 16 years old. The first digits of the #SN will tell you.

[gonzo89]

This is a Giotto Classic.

Whoops! I apologise 'DMO' for my earlier reply to your question. I will admit to not actually opening up the pics to see that it was the classic and the ad did not clearly state it was not a premium..Didn't think I would see classics in circulation much anymore.

Indeed there are a number of differences with this model and the premium. Age is definitely a factor to consider refurbished or not. The steam arm is different (not ball jointed), steam performance is much better on a premium, ventilation is different, a few cosmetic differences, control board etc. If by refurbished it means the newer control board has been wired in then that makes a bit of a difference to the longevity of the machine but performance wise the classic and premium are not the same. Not trying to put down this machine it may well be in great condition but for the right person. 'DMO' If you were willing to part with the money for a new V3 then you have many options.

[dmo]

Whoops! I apologise 'DMO' for my earlier reply to your question. I will admit to not actually opening up the pics to see that it was the classic and the ad did not clearly state it was not a premium..Didn't think I would see classics in circulation much anymore.

Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking this is probably not the machine for me.

[Owlee]

Is the grinder still for sale? 😊

[satd]

Hullo, the Rocky has been sold. ECM still available. 2001 model with refurbishment and last major service 3 years ago with receipt of service - cpu change, seals, shower filter change.

[satd]

Price drop to $800 for the giotto.

[kaanage]

Hi DMO, the v3 has a PID/Solid state relay combo as opposed to just a pressurestat/SSR combo. This allows you to regulate boiler temperature more 'efficiently' (<- I say this because it is a HX not a dual boiler therefore you won't get pin point accurate changes in brew temperature, but you would enjoy an improved level of control over that variable). The V3 also comes with a few changes to the boiler materials and the boiler is now insulated for increased thermal and energy efficiency (your element won't be switching on as much so you would enjoy power savings to some degree)

Despite what your personal preferences, experience and actual needs are, BOTH will make the same quality of espresso with practice and proper control of variables. At this price this combo is incredible (although I don't like the Rocky much personally). What you need to factor in is the age of the actual machine model and the actual state it is in. The seller believes it to be in great shape. This could save you a considerable amount of money even if you did have to fork out for some minor repair in the near future it would still be much cheaper than a V3 (one third of the price if you purchase this machine with no Rocky). I suggest you give it a good think. You are also lucky enough to be in the same city as the seller so an inspection would be a great idea if you need convincing.

Cheers, Al

Thanks for the replies. I'm thinking this is probably not the machine for me.

I can't understand this - unless you are short of bench space or you rarely drink milk coffees, I'd buy the Giotto in a heartbeat over a PID'd Sylvia. Yes, you can get the same quality of espresso from the Sylvia and the PID would make it far easier to get that good shot over the stock (thermostat controlled) version. But steaming milk with the Sylvia is a PITA with its long cycle time (the relatively large brew boiler makes this worse than most other single boiler machines).

Plus once you understand the flush requirements for the Giotto, you can vary the extraction temp slightly to suit the beans and your palette just as you would by fiddling with the PID. Both have long warmup times (the thermosyphon in the e61 group will transfer heat from the boiler faster than the bolted on group of the Sylvia largely negating the smaller boiler size unless you steam cheat it) so there's no advantage there.

Yes, the Giotto is 14 years old but these HX machines are pretty simple devices and refurbishment pretty much replaces the items that need maintenance and I'd bet the SSR and PID would not last as long.

Finally, the Giotto looks incomparably more classy than the Sylvia if that is of any consideration.

GLWS satd. Someone is going to score a great machine at that price.

[dmo]

I can't understand this - unless you are short of bench space or you rarely drink milk coffees, I'd buy the Giotto in a heartbeat over a PID'd Sylvia. Yes, you can get the same quality of espresso from the Sylvia and the PID would make it far easier to get that good shot over the stock (thermostat controlled) version. But steaming milk with the Sylvia is a PITA with its long cycle time (the relatively large brew boiler makes this worse than most other single boiler machines).

My question was about the difference between this machine (which it turns out is 14 years old) and a new Giotto PPv3, which is what I had been (and am still) considering. I am not considering a Sylvia, even with a PID. I decided I'd prefer a new machine, despite the extra cost. I guess it's more about peace of mind, knowing I've got something that works, has a warranty and is not going to wear out any time soon. Is this unreasonable?

[kaanage]

My bad. I somehow missed the Giotto in your first post and someone else mentioned a Sylvia and then gonzo89 only referenced V3 in his thread which put me in mind of a PIDed Sylvia V3.

My comments obviously don't apply to the PIDed Rocket Giotto at all

[kyeba]

Just sent a Pm

[satd]

Sold! Thanks coffeesnobs and everyone who enquired.