!!!PRESUMED SOLD!!! - Trade - E61 for double boiler. Reluctantly

[Steve82]

That's all good to know. I've got a little Sunbeam at work so definitely don't have anything against these type of machines, but I think you misunderstood me. I was talking about temp stability, not just the time it takes to heat up properly before the first use. They are two different things and I'd be interested to know if there's any info on how the BDB performs in this regard. I know a PID takes care of most issues in this area, but surely there's still a change in the temp of the main parts of the machine the longer it's on.

The temp stability of the BDB during a shot and the repeatability of the profile is up there with the GS3. You only have to search Breville Dual Boiler temperature stability for lots of info....

The brew boiler is filled via HX in the steam boiler. Coupled with the the element in the brew boiler and the element in the group collar / head, both controlled via PID = very stable flat line temperature to what ever it is set to.

As for things being different after the machine has been on for a while and things have heated up. The reality is there is nothing / no mass to heat up.

[Gavisconi007]

The temp stability of the BDB during a shot and the repeatability of the profile is up there with the GS3.

Oh pulease!

[Gavisconi007]

Indeed. I was referring to the absence of a sleep/ automatic shut off function. A fine idea in an energy-saving appliance but a 4.5kg group head is either off, getting hot or hot. 'Energy saving' would probably just end up being the opposite?

Mine starts automatically first thing in the morning and I turn it off once I've made the coffees. There is no need for a "sleep" function, and if there were, that would probably consume more electricity during the course of the day (including peak times) than the E61 does heating up in the morning.

[Barry_Duncan]

I have not used an E61 machine so I cannot compare them to my Brev Dual Boiler. However I do believe that the BDB temperature control is possibly equal to most other machines for the reasons explained above. My machine is now 4 years old and is working as well as it did the day I bought it.

Basically, to make great coffee, you need a machine with stable and controllable water temperature and pressure. That is why the Sylvia is so popular. However additional extras like dual boilers, pre infusion, programmed shot volumes and PIDs etc, while not being completely necessary they do make brewing a lot easier, especially when making multiple coffees.

My machine turns itself on about 15 minutes before I jump out of bed. I usually turn it off after coffee. Occasionally I happen to leave it on and the power save function sets in after one hour.

Barry

[Steve82]

Oh pulease!

Obviously with the caveat that I am only talking about people pulling shots in their home in a patient manner, a flat / stable water temp profile is a flat stable temp profile no matter what kind of machine makes it.

In a more commercial or semi commercial situation banging out shots with a much quicker grinder, again obviously the BDB is not going to stand up to the task / GS3 in all regards.

I will also add that my comments were in no way related to what ends up in the cup.

[Gavisconi007]

I will also add that my comments were in no way related to what ends up in the cup.

I'm afraid I'm struggling to understand why one would post references to temperature stability for any reason other than what ends up in the cup. What other reason is there?

[Gavisconi007]

a flat / stable water temp profile is a flat stable temp profile no matter what kind of machine makes it. .

Perhaps a simple science experiment is in order. Take a large stone (representing the E61 group head) and a medium sized pebble (representing the BDB group head). Now heat them both for one hour in a oven preheated to 250 degrees Celsius. Remove stones from oven ( use oven mitts) and put each under a running cold water tap for 1 minute simultaneously. Now put the BDB stone down the front of your underpants and the E61 down the back of your underpants. Wait 5 minutes. If you can still piss but can't sit down for a week, you will be an E61 convert!

[samuellaw178]

Can't help but join this interesting discussion going on

Love your analogy! But that large stone isn't hanging out on the machine at 93C and that exact reason could be your downfall too. Imagine trying to heat up that warm stone to 93d Celcius with your piss (jokingly of course ).

The Breville does have many impressive features, the water is actually hx-preheated so the analogy of pouring cold water on hot pebble doesn't hold water, at least for BDB. It is very likely the intrashot temp stability is better than E61. But the durability is not.

[dlight]

Perhaps a simple science experiment is in order. Take a large stone (representing the E61 group head) and a medium sized pebble (representing the BDB group head). Now heat them both for one hour in a oven preheated to 250 degrees Celsius. Remove stones from oven ( use oven mitts) and put each under a running cold water tap for 1 minute simultaneously. Now put the BDB stone down the front of your underpants and the E61 down the back of your underpants. Wait 5 minutes. If you can still piss but can't sit down for a week, you will be an E61 convert!

What a ridiculous analogy.

If the discussion was the longevity of quality E61 machines, the the E61 wins hands down.

However, if we are talking about temperature stability, there are alternative technologies.

It sounds like you are a believer of the E61 group and any rational discussion that indicates there are alternatives is reprehensible to you.

As an engineer, I look at the facts. A PID controlled light-weight head, fed via a consistent temperature preheated source is more able to maintain an absolutely consistent temperature, than a big lump of metal whose temperature will gradually go up or down depending on its use. It will operate at the temperature range that it's mechanical and hydraulic design dictates. You could not set the temperature to say 96 degrees because you feel that temperature best suits your batch of coffee.

Of course, what matters is the taste in the cup. Without doubt, quality E61 machines do a great job. And the Breville DB also does.

And what is the lifespan of the machine? Quality E61's are measured in decades and appliances in years. But the discussion here is not longevity, but taste in the cup.

[readeral]

The discussion here is that a bloke was trying to swap his e61 for a more suitable machine for his family. It's now 3 pages long and been derailed by a bunch of discussion that has occurred time and time again on this forum. Anyone legitimately keen to help OP out with his request?!

[Dimal]

The discussion here is that a bloke was trying to swap his e61 for a more suitable machine for his family. It's now 3 pages long and been derailed by a bunch of discussion that has occurred time and time again on this forum. Anyone legitimately keen to help OP out with his request?!

Yeah, I agree...

The bulk of this thread belongs somewhere else...

Mal.

[Javaphile]

There is more than enough information in this thread for the OP to decide what they want. Any further posts that don't deal directly with his proposed trade (i.e. I'll trade you my ABC machine for yours.) will be deleted.


Java "Trade what?" phile