!!!SOURCED!!! - WTB - Mahlkonig vario

[Owlee]

After reading tampits constant praise, I'm really keen on giving one a crack. Willing to pay $300-350. Would prefer Melbourne pick up but could pay for postage.
Will be selling my other fiorenzato f5 with new burrs super cheap if I can get a vario ($200-250)
Cheers

[PhatBoy]

They’re amazing.
The Sette W is even better [emoji6]

[matth3wh]

And the Sette 30 AP is ~$360.

Should be good grinding either way.

[Owlee]

Isn't the ap for pour over etc? Didn't think it did micro adjustments.
Thought I read that the 270w still wasn't as good as the vario?

[Owlee]

Where's tampit when ya need him [emoji854]

[TampIt]

Where's tampit when ya need him [emoji854]

G'day Owlee

Living - my tech works for me, not the other way around...

Good luck trying to find a good Vario for so few dollars.

FYI - all my comments relate to the gen2 and 3 Varios.

The difference: The "gen 1" has its three buttons labelled with things like "Espresso" and "French press", the gen2 & 3 buttons have numbers 1, 2 & 3. The "gen1" is more like the Sette in overall performance - probably not nearly as good, although I only compared it to my first gen2 at the time. Note: I lived with a gen1 for three weeks way back, so this is first hand info.

They’re amazing.
The Sette W is even better [emoji6]

G'day PhatBoy

I cannot agree. I have tested 3 Settes (one W) and half a dozen+ Varios so far... oh, and about 50+ other grinder models over the years (mainly big commercial ones). Last time I checked the Sette was a whisker cheaper than the Vario - about 15% if I recall correctly.

Comparing the Sette and Vario by ignoring all issues other than taste & noise is fair enough in my view - similar size, grind retention (very low), similar range of adjustment etc etc etc. Both are "well in the zone" for domestic use by specs. The Vario timer is as accurate as the Sette W weight (Vario timer - mostly within 0.1g for a single 7g shot, Sette ditto). BTW, there is also a Vario W, however I grind directly into the (naked) p/f, so weight is not that useful to me anyway - YMMV.

Taste: The Sette is way better than the ceramic burr Vario for coarser grinds. For "Turkish to espresso" the Vario trumps the Sette by an even bigger margin. Mainly because the Vario only has a very narrow optimised range of grinding textures and the overall particle spread widens rapidly outside that range. By the coarser end of espresso grinds the Vario is at the limit of its comfort zone and the Sette is just getting into its stride.

Why? (educated guess, backed to an extent by testing): The Vario's particle spread has a single peak - very narrow indeed for the Turkish to espresso range - that will always win hands down in the cup to me using those methods. The Sette shares the twin peak of particle spread with every conical grinder I know - i.e. a smaller peak of unwanted fines and then a larger peak of the desired grinds. IMO that is probably why it is not as good for espresso - too many fines, they dissolve faster and pick up more bitterness. I haven't added sugar to my cuppa since the early '80's, so there is no way to hide that extra bitterness... especially if you are doing a direct comparison.

Noise: I was actually going to buy a Sette for my as a replacement for my Bo-ema RR45 (huge, heavy, noisy commercial beast with grind retention measured in cups). The Sette it is about a quarter the size and weight of the Bo-ema, way less grind retention however (unfortunately) it is just as noisy (a less pleasant noise if anything - it gave me a headache after a few minutes grinding for a cold steep). That is a domestic show stopper for me. Artman reckons his new Sette is way quieter than his old one, so it would be worth a first hand look - his earlier one (I only heard it at a CS meet, didn't test it) was roughly the same type and level of noise as the other 3 I tested.

Then I repaired a fellow CS'r's Vario (Queensland "friend via CS"). It had copped a botched warranty repair attempt and he was told his Vario was dead. It wasn't - after a thorough strip down and clean / calibrate it must have taken me all of 10 minutes to fix it. Segue to yet another Neanderthal repair tech slowly dragging his knuckles up the steps... (Note: clearly NOT the excellent "CS Noidle22"). Out of the blue the said CS Queenslander thanked me via a set of the Vario's optional steel burrs (about $30 he told me - no idea where he got them). I already knew about the steel burrs - reviews and the Vario manual both recommend them for coarser grinds. At the time I couldn't see the point of nuking a magic (and fairly dear) espresso grinder for use in the range I felt any other grinder (i.e. my Bo-ema RR45) could do "well enough". Just shows how wrong you can be. The first batch into the Rommelsbacher was simply sensational. I tried my Bo-ema and a friend's Sette. End result: the friend bought a Vario the very next day complete with the optional steel burrs. He doesn't do espresso often, and he knew I have a spare set of ceramic burrs (which he has borrowed a couple of times since). Note to self: Do another purge! All dozen or so manual Carmencitas (Rommelsbachers are electronic), the 2 group La Pav, at least 2 6910s and a Bo-ema RR45 are definitely in need of a new home and/or cafe. Add a 7000 when my new toy arrives mid Oct and a purge must be overdue...

Taste for coarser grinds additional comment: With the steel burrs the Vario is slightly below the Sette level for espresso, cannot do Turkish at all (neither can the Sette) and is way, way better for coarser grinds compared to almost any grinder I have used. Literally the most even "coarser particle spread" I have seen apart from the huge Dittings and Mahlkoenigs. Add the Vario's lack of noise and I ended up converting one of my Varios to the steel burrs "semi permanently" for the coarser stuff.

Being in the market for (yet) another Vario I managed to get two more secondhand ones within a few days - after a quick "strip and clean / rebuild" both work as well as my two "originals". Now I wonder if someone wants my spare?

Hope this helps.

TampIt
coarser grinds*: For my cold steep & drip, modded stirrer plunger and my "Rommelsbachers / Carmentcitas / moka pots" - actually the same thing.

[Owlee]

Cool, thanks for the reply. Had a search for sold varios and the average was around $350. Thought it was an ok price.

Didn't realise there were different generations going around. Need to keep an eye out for the buttons.

You know I'd be interested if you decided to move one of those spares on [emoji6]

[roosterben]

There is one on FleaBay and one on Gumtree in North Sydney if you have a look both around the price you are looking (but not sure where you are based).

[Owlee]

Thanks for that, did notice the one on ebay. In Melbourne unfortunately. Would prefer to buy off a cs member but will look elsewhere if nothing pops up

[TampIt]

Cool, thanks for the reply. Had a search for sold varios and the average was around $350. Thought it was an ok price.

Didn't realise there were different generations going around. Need to keep an eye out for the buttons.

You know I'd be interested if you decided to move one of those spares on [emoji6]

G'day Owlee

$350 may get you a good Vario in Melbourne - I really do not know. The issue I have with a secondhand one for the uninformed is pretty simple - like most "shrunk commercial machines" they are more fragile and any idiot can trash one pretty easily. The Qld CS'r's one shows that up clearly. The worst of it was the Vario probably wasn't faulty in the first place. Theoretically the micro switch didn't work - haven't you guys heard of Penetrene? I reckon two drops (one per day) and it would have fixed it. When I pulled the machine apart it was jammed with some grounds caused by the first botched repair which tore the plastic guard, then the second idiot tried to free it without cleaning it out.


My spares: I appreciate that - the issue is that my spare has no packaging and between that and the postage it would cost a bomb to get out of Perth... Damn shame. I still haven't decided what to do with my 4th Vario - with XMas coming up I will probably use one for my usual, one for decaf, one for a darker roast and my fourth (steel burr one) for the Rommelsbachers (or my "stirrer plunger") - that covers all family preferences without using a crane for the Bo-ema. After that we shall see.

TampIt

[PhatBoy]

G'day Owlee

Living - my tech works for me, not the other way around...

Good luck trying to find a good Vario for so few dollars.

FYI - all my comments relate to the gen2 and 3 Varios.

The difference: The "gen 1" has its three buttons labelled with things like "Espresso" and "French press", the gen2 & 3 buttons have numbers 1, 2 & 3. The "gen1" is more like the Sette in overall performance - probably not nearly as good, although I only compared it to my first gen2 at the time. Note: I lived with a gen1 for three weeks way back, so this is first hand info.



G'day PhatBoy

I cannot agree. I have tested 3 Settes (one W) and half a dozen+ Varios so far... oh, and about 50+ other grinder models over the years (mainly big commercial ones). Last time I checked the Sette was a whisker cheaper than the Vario - about 15% if I recall correctly.

Comparing the Sette and Vario by ignoring all issues other than taste & noise is fair enough in my view - similar size, grind retention (very low), similar range of adjustment etc etc etc. Both are "well in the zone" for domestic use by specs. The Vario timer is as accurate as the Sette W weight (Vario timer - mostly within 0.1g for a single 7g shot, Sette ditto). BTW, there is also a Vario W, however I grind directly into the (naked) p/f, so weight is not that useful to me anyway - YMMV.

Taste: The Sette is way better than the ceramic burr Vario for coarser grinds. For "Turkish to espresso" the Vario trumps the Sette by an even bigger margin. Mainly because the Vario only has a very narrow optimised range of grinding textures and the overall particle spread widens rapidly outside that range. By the coarser end of espresso grinds the Vario is at the limit of its comfort zone and the Sette is just getting into its stride.

Why? (educated guess, backed to an extent by testing): The Vario's particle spread has a single peak - very narrow indeed for the Turkish to espresso range - that will always win hands down in the cup to me using those methods. The Sette shares the twin peak of particle spread with every conical grinder I know - i.e. a smaller peak of unwanted fines and then a larger peak of the desired grinds. IMO that is probably why it is not as good for espresso - too many fines, they dissolve faster and pick up more bitterness. I haven't added sugar to my cuppa since the early '80's, so there is no way to hide that extra bitterness... especially if you are doing a direct comparison.

Noise: I was actually going to buy a Sette for my as a replacement for my Bo-ema RR45 (huge, heavy, noisy commercial beast with grind retention measured in cups). The Sette it is about a quarter the size and weight of the Bo-ema, way less grind retention however (unfortunately) it is just as noisy (a less pleasant noise if anything - it gave me a headache after a few minutes grinding for a cold steep). That is a domestic show stopper for me. Artman reckons his new Sette is way quieter than his old one, so it would be worth a first hand look - his earlier one (I only heard it at a CS meet, didn't test it) was roughly the same type and level of noise as the other 3 I tested.

Then I repaired a fellow CS'r's Vario (Queensland "friend via CS"). It had copped a botched warranty repair attempt and he was told his Vario was dead. It wasn't - after a thorough strip down and clean / calibrate it must have taken me all of 10 minutes to fix it. Segue to yet another Neanderthal repair tech slowly dragging his knuckles up the steps... (Note: clearly NOT the excellent "CS Noidle22"). Out of the blue the said CS Queenslander thanked me via a set of the Vario's optional steel burrs (about $30 he told me - no idea where he got them). I already knew about the steel burrs - reviews and the Vario manual both recommend them for coarser grinds. At the time I couldn't see the point of nuking a magic (and fairly dear) espresso grinder for use in the range I felt any other grinder (i.e. my Bo-ema RR45) could do "well enough". Just shows how wrong you can be. The first batch into the Rommelsbacher was simply sensational. I tried my Bo-ema and a friend's Sette. End result: the friend bought a Vario the very next day complete with the optional steel burrs. He doesn't do espresso often, and he knew I have a spare set of ceramic burrs (which he has borrowed a couple of times since). Note to self: Do another purge! All dozen or so manual Carmencitas (Rommelsbachers are electronic), the 2 group La Pav, at least 2 6910s and a Bo-ema RR45 are definitely in need of a new home and/or cafe. Add a 7000 when my new toy arrives mid Oct and a purge must be overdue...

Taste for coarser grinds additional comment: With the steel burrs the Vario is slightly below the Sette level for espresso, cannot do Turkish at all (neither can the Sette) and is way, way better for coarser grinds compared to almost any grinder I have used. Literally the most even "coarser particle spread" I have seen apart from the huge Dittings and Mahlkoenigs. Add the Vario's lack of noise and I ended up converting one of my Varios to the steel burrs "semi permanently" for the coarser stuff.

Being in the market for (yet) another Vario I managed to get two more secondhand ones within a few days - after a quick "strip and clean / rebuild" both work as well as my two "originals". Now I wonder if someone wants my spare?

Hope this helps.

TampIt
coarser grinds*: For my cold steep & drip, modded stirrer plunger and my "Rommelsbachers / Carmentcitas / moka pots" - actually the same thing.

Lots of interesting info that you have provided.

My timer based Vario was never within .1g, more 1g difference, I was using ceramic burrs. It was also loud, but yes the Sette is even louder.
I find the burrs easier to clean on the Sette, they pop out in seconds to remove any left over beans when I put them away after use.
Beans would find places to hide in the Vario.
Compared to the design of the Vario they made a lot of user friendly improvements.
Taste, the most important thing, your most likely right. There would be more fines in the Sette, but the body in the espresso is big. Maybe a touch less clarity than in my Vario, bitterness possibly, hard to say unless running same beans side by side.
Vario footprint is amazing, so easy to transport.
The Sette W won’t dose into a portafilter accurately either due to vibrations. Apparently fixed with the Wi upgrade. Value for money, if you can find a used Vario, grab it.

[gc]

I am using a new Vario and a new Sette 270W with my DecentEspresso DE1+. According to my onscreen data I am getting very consistent results with the Sette [for espresso], not so consistent with the Vario [yet!]. Changing grind with the Sette is easy and consistent, whereas the Vario wanders a bit and takes some time to settle if I change the grind, so I tend to use the Vario for just one single estate medium roast. This is my one frustration with the Vario. For no-fuss home use for espresso or milky drinks, I would still recommend the Sette over the Vario. But like TampIt says, when the Vario gets it right, it is really, really good.

[TampIt]

Lots of interesting info that you have provided.

My timer based Vario was never within .1g, more 1g difference, I was using ceramic burrs. It was also loud, but yes the Sette is even louder.
I find the burrs easier to clean on the Sette, they pop out in seconds to remove any left over beans when I put them away after use.
Beans would find places to hide in the Vario.
Compared to the design of the Vario they made a lot of user friendly improvements.
Taste, the most important thing, your most likely right. There would be more fines in the Sette, but the body in the espresso is big. Maybe a touch less clarity than in my Vario, bitterness possibly, hard to say unless running same beans side by side.
Vario footprint is amazing, so easy to transport.
The Sette W won’t dose into a portafilter accurately either due to vibrations. Apparently fixed with the Wi upgrade. Value for money, if you can find a used Vario, grab it.

You just described my gen1 Vario perfectly - the timer dosing was all over the place and it was at least twice as noisy as the later ones. The gen2/3 is a totally different (Swiss Ditting) module and is why I specified the gen2 and gen3 in my post.

FWIW, the Sette W dosing was accurate, however going direct into the p/f nukes that anyway.

[PhatBoy]

You just described my gen1 Vario perfectly - the timer dosing was all over the place and it was at least twice as noisy as the later ones. The gen2/3 is a totally different (Swiss Ditting) module and is why I specified the gen2 and gen3 in my post.

FWIW, the Sette W dosing was accurate, however going direct into the p/f nukes that anyway.

I thought mine was gen 2? it had the 1,2,3 button timed pre sets

[dbun]

One just sold on ebay for $345 - hope the OP saw it in time!