BeanBay GREEN December 2008

[andrew]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Slightly off-topic...

I think you will do better searching for Wallenford (not Walford), Mavis Bank (accepted as the best of the farms) and Captain Cook.  As far as I remember they are the only 3 official Jamaica Blue Mountain (JBM) farms and others are lower on the mountain calling themselves variations on the JBM theme.

The Blue Mountain beans are a good example over priced beans.  At $100/kg you get beans from a small patch of land in Jamaica that have been well marketed over the years.  Its very good, clean coffee and well graded but I doubt that it would come out on top of many blind taste tests.  Still, its good to try once just so you know for yourself.  We have sold it before and might do it again one day when we have 88 people wanting a kilo each!
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1178960984

Cup of Excellence (CoE) is a different kettle of fish.  In each region the coffee growers submit 16 odd bags (just under a tonne) of their very best coffee.  It is cupped blind by a large group of coffee professionals from all over the world that are among the very best in their field.  The winning lots are then auctioned. Being an auction the end price is more often determined by how many bidders REALLY want this lot so it might be overpriced sometimes but the quality is great.  

The other thing that the CoE competition does is show the small farmers that if they produce an outstanding coffee they will get paid well for it.  In some countries that has created a specialty coffee industry where it didnt previously exist.  The winners are the farmers and the consumers

What you get with Jamaican Blue Mountain coffees is a name.

What you get with CoE is the very best coffees judged on QUALITY in the cup.



Given the choice I will pick quality over marketing every time!

Thanks Andy, this was an excellent and extremely helpful explanation and I agree with you totally that these coffees are probably better than JBM given that the very batch has been tasted and judged, as opposed to a region generally.

Congratulations for negotiating and winning all these amazing beans! Another first for Australian coffee? Im expecting another newspaper article about this one...

Now just have to put together enought money for a self-Christmas-present...

[yeeza]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

As green beans last about 3 years, why would you want or need to freeze them?

So you can store them for 10 years and sell it in 2018 as a vintage... @ maybe 10 times the price  ;D

Dont think these will last more than 3 weeks with me. YUM..... :P :P

Hmm, just quietly, Id be having them pretty much right away. They were cupped within this time-frame, and given this score as they are now. Ive had some CoEs that had been sitting around for a while, even from last years CoE and almost seem flat and lifeless in comparison (apparently) to when they first received the greens. Just a thought.

[andy]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008


$300 for JBM is a fair whack! That is why we sold it green... give everyone a shot at "$300" coffee for a whole lot less outlay.

The CoE just has to be roasted to where you want to use them.

The point scores these got would have been at a very light roast for cupping. Depending on your brew method how dark to go but as a rule of thumb... stop when you hear the first pops of second... it will still be well before second crack and you get a fully developed roast at that point. Cool them fast though so that 2nd STOPS.

If you have a "standard roast profile" that works for you then you should know how long 1st - 2nd crack is for a given amount of heat. You could use that know when to stop the application of heat.

Dont stress too much, just roast them like you would any other bean. The only real difference is the price and after you have paid for them they are just green coffee beans until you roast them.


They will roast really well due to the amazing grading and will be a clean sweet cup so you shouldnt have too much grief producing some magic that will become your future "yard-stick" for these 5 origins.

PS: If anyone wants to pay $300 a kilo then I expect a whole host of site sponsors would happily roast these CoE beans.

[baconmeister]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

As green beans last about 3 years, why would you want or need to freeze them?

So you can store them for 10 years and sell it in 2018 as a vintage... @ maybe 10 times the price ;D

Dont think these will last more than 3 weeks with me. YUM..... :P :P

[baconmeister]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Dead right Andy. A friend gave me some 100% certified Jamaican Blue Mountain (roasted) a couple of month ago, think was around $300/KG roasted, to be honest I didnt think it was that special... Its pretty good but not $300 good. I am sure the cup of excellence beans will beat the JBM hands down and @ a cheaper price.

Andy, would you be able to post some roasting guide for these beans? having thought about that I only have 1 chance to nail the roast for each batch.

Or simply let us know where we should stop the roast? I know with these beans I shouldnt reach SC at all to preserve the delicate flavour, but at the same time I dont want it too light to the point that all I can taste is grassy acid.

[Thundergod]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Well you can buy them and put them in the freezer to roast later. These beans dont come easy and there may not be a next time...  

As green beans last about 3 years, why would you want or need to freeze them?

[andy]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Yes, as far as I know there has never been an opportunity to purchase Cup of Excellence green beans in such small quantities in Australia.  We had a single bag of Brazil Cup of Excellence about 4 years ago and typically they just don’t make it to Australia… certainly not as green bean offerings.

We had to purchase 200kg odd to get these and in 1.5kg lots I expect we will have this lot on offer for a while yet.

As for not seeing them in the future I guess that all depends on the demand.  If we sell these then we can look at getting other exceptional beans again one day.  If I end up drinking most of these then maybe we won’t.

At $1 a cup after roasting I think it’s a bargain for some of the world’s highest rated coffee.

[baconmeister]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Well you can buy them and put them in the freezer to roast later. These beans dont come easy and there may not be a next time...

[beanflying]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Mmmm Looked long and hard and decided my roasting skills are not worthy YET

To do more Practice I Ordered 7.5kg of Green including 2.5kg of Brazil Bourbon that magically reappeared as I missed BB last month.

By the time I finish roasting my curent stash of 30kg+ I should be ready for next time around

[baconmeister]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Goodness... My hands are shaking... my fingers wants to press that Order button...

But theres one problem I can see from this, they are all 300g Batches, and thats one batch in the Genecafe roaster, what happens if I stuff up the first roast? there will be no 2nd roast to back it up...

But still I want them!!!  

Update: OK just ordered them, wont be able to live with myself if I missed out on the cup of excellence, its a rare opportunity. Getting my Hario Syphon shipped from Moonleaf gift shop @ WA next week, so will be a great tool to try it out with the cup of excellence bean. This is going to be an exciting Xmas... ;D ;D ;D

[Bill]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Oh damm, more coffee that I just have to have! Order placed and paid for.

[flynnaus]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

I think you will do better searching for Wallenford (not Walford)

My mistake. I started seaching just for Jamaica Blue Mountain and meant Wallenford, not Walford - was trying to post from memory and this was one estate that seemed to be mentioned most often

The Blue Mountain beans are a good example over priced beans.

Yes I wondered if that was the case; whether it was one-time top of the heap and now relies on reputation rather than reality. But getting back on-topic...

What you get with CoE is the very best coffees judged on QUALITY in the cup. Given the choice I will pick quality over marketing every time

Well you sold me. I have 12.5kg of green beans ready for me to get my A into G, put the Corretto together and get roasting. This sort of thing doesnt come up very often so I think I may have to indulge myself in some CoE for Christmas (but dont tell the missus).

[andy]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008


Slightly off-topic...

I think you will do better searching for Wallenford (not Walford), Mavis Bank (accepted as the best of the farms) and Captain Cook. As far as I remember they are the only 3 official Jamaica Blue Mountain (JBM) farms and others are lower on the mountain calling themselves variations on the JBM theme.

The Blue Mountain beans are a good example over priced beans. At $100/kg you get beans from a small patch of land in Jamaica that have been well marketed over the years. Its very good, clean coffee and well graded but I doubt that it would come out on top of many blind taste tests. Still, its good to try once just so you know for yourself. We have sold it before and might do it again one day when we have 88 people wanting a kilo each!
http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1178960984

Cup of Excellence (CoE) is a different kettle of fish. In each region the coffee growers submit 16 odd bags (just under a tonne) of their very best coffee. It is cupped blind by a large group of coffee professionals from all over the world that are among the very best in their field. The winning lots are then auctioned. Being an auction the end price is more often determined by how many bidders REALLY want this lot so it might be overpriced sometimes but the quality is great.

The other thing that the CoE competition does is show the small farmers that if they produce an outstanding coffee they will get paid well for it. In some countries that has created a specialty coffee industry where it didnt previously exist. The winners are the farmers and the consumers

What you get with Jamaican Blue Mountain coffees is a name.

What you get with CoE is the very best coffees judged on QUALITY in the cup.



Given the choice I will pick quality over marketing every time!

[flynnaus]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

Good point sirhc8. Buying abottle of Grange Hermitage may not give you 10x the quality of a medium range bottle of red but one would like the experience.

I was looking around on the Net for Blue Mountain Walford Estate beans. There is a chain of stores called Jamaica Blue that sell this in Australia but I dont think they do green beans. There are people who have Fleabay stores that offer to send this bean internationally but there is a risk involved (do you get what you pay for) as well as the additional costs of importing to Oz.

[sirhc8]

Re: BeanBay GREEN December 2008

The relationship between quality and price is very rarely linear, so in terms of value, it may be hard to justify such indulgence on a regular basis.

Its just like buying a fine bottle of wine or of champagne. You wouldnt have these as your daily fare (well, I certainly couldnt afford to) but you have them to indulge yourself once in a while or for special occasions. I think searching for a purely economic justification for trying these beans is rather pointless; because you are unlikely to find one.