BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

[jaclarkaus]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Hi Andy

I wonder if you would put up a suggested roasting profile for the greens with the tasting notes, for us noobs (more than just ~CS9).  There is so much more to it than just the finish point.  You must have lots of experience given all the browns you ship.  I know it is very roaster dependant, but we can work out a translation for an air roaster or BM with a little experience.

Also since the CSSP beans are not up individually there are no tasting notes at all, so no idea if a newbie is on the money with their roast... so please add a page to the SP with tasting notes and profile recommendations.

Thanks,
Eric

Hi Eric,

This question has been asked here a few times.

*If* Andy was to publish profile information and provide us with his intellectual property, that information would ultimately be useful only to those who have a commercial roaster of the same brand and size configured identically to Andys roaster.

Best bet is to use the colour guide as a suggested end point and then play with your profiles until you nail the bean, or run out

Experimentation is all part of the process and documenting things so that you can refer to previous failure and success will make your journey more fun.

Happy roasting...

2mcm

I asked the same question, and got much the same answer - to the extent I had decided to stop posting.

There is an old saying, "its better to be approximately right than precisely wrong". We dont need exact directions, just a North South East West

Do you suggest to preheat the beans (more than normal)
Do you suggest fast ramp up or slow?
Do you suggest slowing down after FC to stretch it out?
Fast or slow FC, into SC or stop short?

People who know how to handle hard/soft beans know some of this, but for the beginners, its a plus. There are some hints based on colour and SC, just a few more would be nice.

Ill run away now...

[Epic76]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

People who know how to handle hard/soft beans know some of this, but for the beginners, its a plus. There are some hints based on colour and SC, just a few more would be nice.

I hear ya Clarkie and totally agree. Whilst the trial and error based pursuit of roasted perfection is what attracts most to this caffinated journey, I for one would appreciate a few warning signs along the roadside

- "Roasting less than CS X leads to pronounced sourness"
- "Darker than CS X = burnt to the shithouse"

You know, just a ballpark guide.

Humbly yours,

Epic76

[cksyd]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

I asked the same question, and got much the same answer - to the extent I had decided to stop posting.

I had read all of that and therefore have not asked - very fair response by Andy I will say. Love his comment that if you want to know, buy brown  ;D

Do you suggest to preheat the beans (more than normal)
Do you suggest fast ramp up or slow?
Do you suggest slowing down after FC to stretch it out?
Fast or slow FC, into SC or stop short?

People who know how to handle hard/soft beans know some of this, but for the beginners, its a plus.

These questions however I do like. They are ballpark and useful for some of us.

I am a bit suspect on my last couple of roasts (ramp speed) and intend changing it this Friday. Changing beans so often (thanks again Andy) tends to muddle the pure analysis so a roughie guide, if anyone has one (not you Andy... ) would kinda help.

Im not wanting to replicate anyones roast, just trying to get a better handle on some stuff.

Chris

...I cant do _that_ many roasts of one bean    Need change!! Need change!! So many beans.....

[beanflying]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Problem is to provide even rough figures such as ramps etc is that all Beans are different to roast and all roasters are different to roast in.

I have for example a few beans in my stash that try and jump straight from FC to SC and go exothermic so I have had to come up with ways to combat this. While I have others that nearly run out of time on my current Hottop so they are better done by hand with a heatgun.

Point is that if you want info on a specific bean best place to start a thread is here http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?board=roasting and head it up how are you roasting Bean X If you try and start a discussion here then it will just get lost in the rest of the toing and froing

[stuartgrant]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

I can sympathise with many of the posters here wanting more ballpark info...

But clearly we can all recognise that Andy is a busy guy who gives as much as humanly possible. Perhaps it would be better to direct such requests not specifically to Andy but to the group as a whole (at least those who also bought bean X and have tried it). Sure, the same problem of comparing results between different roasting set-ups is still there, but ballpark guidelines can still be gleaned... I personally find the Cupping and Home Roasting forums useful for sharing/finding this kind of info.

Cheers
Stuart.

ps. apologies to coffeengineer - you probably didnt realise the sh!tstorm that would ensue at your question...

[bolb]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

I agree with Andy, AM, Chris, Mal on this one.

Just jump in and do it and form your method of roaster the buggers.
Personally i dont try and ramp this or ramp that, i prefer to keep a consistent roast each time and then hopefully have an even roast at the end of each process.

Have i done a really bad roast that i couldnt drink, yes when i was learning in a popper which is why i started with a popper on advice from gurus such as Mal & TG.

But having said that, could my palate distinguish between a good and bad roast if they are both consistent in roast profile and depth?? Probably not but it doesnt bother me as long as the end result in the cup is good and generally it is and thats what counts for me.

Plus the whole roasting concept is about "Me Time" when the rest of the family know to leave me alone


Mal

[Dimal]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Spot-on Mal....

When starting off, the best way to find a profile of ANY bean that comes close to the way you like to drink coffee is first.... Buy a 2nd hand Popper or if you cant find one then $20-30 will get you a reasonable one that will do a decent enough job.

Also, buy a workbook that you can setup as a Roast Log to record the milestones of every roast you do, including cupping notes/impressions afterwards. This information will be worth its weight in Gold further on down the track.

Regardless of your primary roasting system, use the Popper as a sample roaster to give you an idea of where to start your profiles in the main one. Basically (with the popper), stick to small batches of 80-100g and then weigh out three batches for each bean type you just bought.

After first pre-heating the popper for a minute or so, roast the first batch to the start of Second Crack(SC) and record the milestones of the roast as it progresses. When the first few snaps of SC are heard, stop the roast and immediately cool.

For the next batch, stop the roast about 30 seconds before the onset of SC and immediately cool (you should have a good idea of where this will be after taking the first batch to the start of SC).

For the last batch, take the roast right through until Rolling SC has definitely started and then stop and immediately cool.

Store and mark each batch accordingly, give em a couple of days to degas and develop (no real need to use 1-Way Valve bags for this; small zip-Lock bags are perfect). OK, after a couple of days (more or less, its up to you) have a go at cupping each of the batches via which method you prefer and do your best to come up with accurate, meaningful descriptions (for you) and then determine which batch comes closest to delivering the sort of coffee youre striving for.

Once youve done all this, dont forget to record these cupping notes in your Roast Log, and then go for some simple profiles using your Primary Roaster that come as close as you can manage to the target profile. Do this for every new bean type you acquire and you will soon build up an enviable repository of roasting info that will be invaluable to you as time goes on. Once you become more familiar with the processes of roasting and gain in confidence, you can start to fiddle with slightly more complex profiles for each of your bean varietals and see how this is reflected in the cup. This is when roasting really starts to become more interesting, as you get right down to the nitty-gritty of what is physically going on right the way through the bean, and its impact on the result in the cup.

Theres no need to become this involved of course as fantastic results are achievable without going into it to this extent.... The law of diminishing returns applies with roasting just as much as it does with many other things in life. Thats whats so great about home-roasting though, theres no need to know whats going on to the nth degree, as the application of basic principles are more than capable of producing excellent outcomes. And dont forget, its all about having fun too... ;D

Mal.

[Ben_S]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Did anyone get the toolbar "BeanBay Alert"?

I sent two of them and I didnt see it in my browser.
Curious.
:-?

Funnily enough, the notifications popped up in firefox today

[cksyd]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Good advice Mal

I guess Ill have to make my popper less idle...

Just felt over the past two roasts that I was getting a touch lost, or a touch long to FC is my suspicion....either way a touch unsure....of my touch.... :-/

Ill keep digging.....or roasting... 8-)

Chris

...now that was a touchy post.... ;D

[Coffeengineer]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Of course, should you want to see how I think these should be roasted then just buy them roasted.

Yes, I fully intend doing that soon [smiley=smiley.gif]  though express post is slower that I would like - normally pick up within a couple of hours of roast @ my local.  Thanks Andy for all that you do.  The best promotion is education and I guess that is a lot of what you do with the shows etc - just a thought that from the beginners perspective a little more info up front would be a help and might be a better return on your time investment.

Mal thanks for the run through and I do intend setting up a dbase to record all my information, just like my wine collection.  Still getting a feel for the required schema.

I was prompted to make the request as I had the experience of being pretty unimpressed with a specific bean in the SP, Uganda Sipi Falls, could not get anything interesting out of it, did a search on here and did not see anything useful so I decided to use my last 200g as a sacrificial roast to autotune the new ramp/soak controller on my popper.  I was careful to run what I considered a normal profile up to the point (190C) where I wanted to autotune then flip over to a constant profile, autotune and flip back and finish... doing lots of things one "shouldnt" like holding way too long just before FC and flapping the temp up & down ... the result blew me away - the elusive rest free roast! Was my 2nd best roast, or even maybe 1st (since my palate is fast improving) an hour after the roast and just went downhill after a couple of days, being quite average by day 4.  Still @ less than 20 roasts, not a single failure - had expected this would be my first.

Now this belongs elsewhere I know but it showed me that there can be a huge difference between browning and roasting.   I have often read that one can run out before getting it right so any info, hints, up front can save wasting beans.  I have been lucky so far.

So is it OK to start a thread in the cupping forum with a post like "How do you roast XXX?"

Yep, roasting is fun and the only real reason for doing it...

Eric  

I note that this thread was moderated after the initial flames...

[beanflying]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Hi Eric,

put it under the Roasting section the Cupping bit is how it tastes after you burn them

OT what board did you use for your Ramp controller on the popper?

[jaclarkaus]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Mal thanks for the run through and I do intend setting up a dbase to record all my information, just like my wine collection. Still getting a feel for the required schema.

Off topic, but ... http://improbablystructuredlayers.net/CoffeeRoastingDB/

[cksyd]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Off topic, but ... http://improbablystructuredlayers.net/CoffeeRoastingDB/

Yeah but you need MS Access to run it

Chris

[Dimal]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Yeah but you need MS Access to run it  

Or....

You could download the Free version of Open Office and run it with that. Works just fine.... 8-)

Mal.

[mick14jah]

Re: BeanBay Monthly Sale - Tues 7th April 2009

Got both alerts on time on internet explorer .
Got beans  
All great
Thanks Poo bear... sorry Poo Bar  !!!   :
"Wonder Why Andy likes  Coffee ....? I wonder why he does  ,,   Buzz ,Buzz ,Buzz  !!!!"    ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Mick