Cafe ratings

[Boris]

Its been discussed before and discounted for various reasons, but another forum has started rating cafes. Now my loyalty lies here but I like to keep an open mind and visit this site now and then.

http://www.cremamagazine.com.au/page/cafe_ratings.html

You dont need to be a member to add to a review. There is a plum review for Basement Cafe, TransACT Building, Northbourne Ave
Dickson, ACT. Great stuff ;D . On the down side, Gloria Jeans rates a 5 for coffeee!! :-[

Boris

[TC]

Re: Cafe ratings

Its been discussed before and discounted for various reasons, but another forum has started rating cafes. Now my loyalty lies here but I like to keep an open mind and visit this site now and then.

http://www.cremamagazine.com.au/page/cafe_ratings.html

You dont need to be a member to add to a review. There is a plum review for Basement Cafe, TransACT Building, Northbourne Ave
Dickson, ACT.  Great stuff  ;D . On the down side, Gloria Jeans rates a 5 for coffeee!! :-[
Boris

Therein lies the problem as far as Im concerned, Boris......Any tool who likes a very hot weak skinny underextracted latte can rate a cafe as a 5/5.... I reckon that unless you are an aasca qualified judge its probably best to enjoy what you like, perhaps take a friend along but keep your mouth shut! The site has been around for ages....

2mcm

[lochness]

Re: Cafe ratings

Appears at first glance to be an old, unmaintained site given that they list the TOP 5 Cafes for Vic and NSW for Spring 2002 and Summer 2003....

[csutak40]

Re: Cafe ratings

I dont even get how this rating thing works. Except for a few places, most were voted for by one person. What does that mean? I mean I could be the owner and change my name to Jack and give my establishment 5/5

Also, the very first place for Vic is Amici in St Kilda. As Ive never heard of it, decided to look it up. No such place! There is one in Elsternwick, which I suppose could be the same place.

[MattG]

Re: Cafe ratings

Amici is in chapel st in prahran. They make ok rosettas, thats about it.

[Boris]

Re: Cafe ratings

I dont even get how this rating thing works.  Except for a few places, most were voted for by one person.  What does that mean?  I mean I could be the owner and change my name to Jack and give my establishment 5/5...

Come on Judy, who would do that. Surely a proprietor would read the feedback and then lift his game to improve. Dont they all?

Boris

[Fresh_Coffee]

Re: Cafe ratings

I really dont think rating cafes is a good idea.

If you rate a cafe well, a great proportion of joe averages think the coffee BRAND is good.

If you rate a cafe badly, a great proportion of joe averages think the coffee BRAND is no good.

If you rate a cafe at all, you are unduly influencing the market and that cafes good name, and you are also unduly influencing  the coffee suppliers brand name by association. I am well known around these parts for placing a lot of the responsibility for what you get in the cup, at the feet of the espresso machine operator. Some operators are good, others unfortunately couldnt get it right even if you supplied them with gold plated triple A grade beans grown in the gardens of vestal virgins, picked by the moonlight and delivered to the roasters door in the boot of a maserati instead of a truck.

Example:
You have a steak in an eatery...its not to your liking...you comment on this...the eaterys name suffers the consequence. Does the name of the butcher that supplied the meat come into it...no.

You have a cuppa in an eatery (cafes are eateries that also serve coffee) ...its not to your liking...you comment on this...the eaterys name suffers the consequence...and so does the name of the coffee supplier. In my book thats industrial sabotage.

Let the clients decide because they went there and they tried, let them tell all their friends by word of mouth in the usual manner what they thought (word of mouth is extremely powerful) let them not be influenced by hearsay and or personal indulgence that has been written & / or rated by "whom?".

regardz,
FC.

[csutak40]

Re: Cafe ratings

I see your point, but dont agree 100%.  You see if I go to a steakhouse to eat steak, I go there knowing that the owner of the steakhouse is careful where he sources his meat from, because you cant make perfect steak our of meat that hasnt been aged properly, etc.  If he wants to serve the best steak, it has to be from the best meat available.

Having said that, I do understand that another eatery may buy the same meat (although I doubt it, they would be more driven by the price than quality) and completely ruin it.  I also understand that a coffee owner cant buy $100 p/kg beans, because no one would be willing to pay the price he would have to charge for a cup of coffee, whereas people do go to unbelievably expensive steakhouses...

So, what Im saying I guess is that the best barista couldt make a great cup of coffee out of horrible coffee, but I suppose a good barista wouldnt work with horrible coffee anyway.

[Lovey]

Re: Cafe ratings

To the customer, there isnt a visible link between the steak and the supplier, only the steak and the eatery.
When you go to a steak house, you arent sitting under an umbrella, or next to a windbreak or eating off a plate with the steak suppliers name on it. So if the chef really stuffs the steak up, you blame the chef, not the supplier.
In a cafe youre usually bombarded with items advertising the brand or the supplier of the coffee. So if the EMO stuffs up your cup of coffee, people look at the umbrella, windbreak or cup and attribute the blame to the brand of coffee, not the EMO.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Steve.

[Habit]

Re: Cafe ratings

Hi CSers,

Ive got to say that I find this thread pretty interesting.
As much from trying to read between the lines than the printed words.

Near as I can figure (and Im a rookie snob, so grant my theory whatever modicum of credence you see fit) , the word thats causing the difficulty here is "rating".

Lets for arguments sake, re-name the thread topic to CSers Cafe recommendations, much less confronting I think.

More likely that people reading the posts will take them at appropriate face value.

Giving bad raps to coffee houses in a public arena has, in my opinion, no place on this forum for more reasons than I care to go into. (You can put BAD KARMA somewhere near the top of my list though).

If like me, you find yourself in unfamiliar locations both local and interstate on a semi frequent basis, you might appreciate a heads-up on where youre a chance to get a decent coffee.

So, if "recommendations" are kept to just that, without any kind of rating scale, there shouldnt be a problem.
CSers are surely learned enough (if not then who would be) to know that recomendations can only ever be made and subsequently assessed in a subjective fashion. There will always be cases of one CSers sublime espresso experience being anothers repulsive, acrid, nightmare".

If published comments are kept to the possitive side of the ledger, surely no bad can come of it.

Praise publicly and constuctively criticise (or even have a damn good b!+@#, if you must) privately.

And that, if you add up everyones contribution, makes about 20 cents worth.

Hmmm, thats not going to get me a decent coffee anywhare.

Jeff.

[Lovey]

Re: Cafe ratings

Gday Jeff, thats an interesting slant on this.
I like the idea of the recommendation for a cafe rather than a rating. The only problem I forsee with that, is how do you un-recommend a cafe? Its bound to happen when cafes change something, like the owners, staff, beans, etc and the new doesnt cut it like the old.
How do you then remove this cafes good recommendation without getting into criticism and a rating all over again?
Just my thoughts,
Steve.

[lochness]

Re: Cafe ratings

The only problem I forsee with that, is how do you un-recommend a cafe? Its bound to happen when cafes change something, like the owners, staff, beans, etc and the new doesnt cut it like the old.
How do you then remove this cafes good recommendation without getting into criticism and a rating all over again?
Just my thoughts,
Steve.

I reckon there are a couple ways to handle that kind of thing.

One that springs to mind is a rolling system of voting like they have at Podcast Alley, which is a podcast directory and you can also vote for your favourite podcasts and they are ranked according to the number of votes from listeners.
http://www.podcastalley.com/

You register as a user and you can only vote ONCE per month, per podcast.
At the end each month, the votes are zerod out and voting starts over again.
Keeps it current, and gives new up and coming popular podcasts a chance to make the top of the list.

So with a system like that, you could recommended a cafe you like for eight consecutive months, and then the owners changed or something happened and you no longer liked it, you just dont vote for it the next month.

This system, or a modification of, could be applied to rating cafes in each city.

[Habit]

Re: Cafe ratings

I think something like that could work lochness.

As long as recommendations include a date, they could either be discarded after say 2 months, or downgraded or something.

I reckon you wouldnt want a system that was hard/took a lot of time to maintain or contribute to, so it would need to be kept simple.

Even if it amounted to "date","name/address of establishment", "1st name of barista", "style of coffee", "price".

If a CSer considers it worth the effort to make the recommendation, Id consider it to be enough said.


Jeff.