Coffee may make diabetes worse

[robusto]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Dennis, dont let that one get around -- the latest news is that nuts have to be consumed outdoors for safety. I like my coffee indoors.

Nunu, I reckon my healthy balanced diet is due to all those additives.

[nunu]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Not to mention wood, metal, concrete, rocks, etc. Daily supply of vitamins and minerals in every cup.

[Dennis]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

hehe robusto. You forgot to mention that coffee may contain traces of nuts. ;D

[robusto]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

The coffee story so far....

Coffee gives you headaches
Coffee stops headaches

Coffee is good for the heart
Coffee is bad for the heart

Coffee is bad for diabetics
Coffee is good for diabetics

Coffee is a diuretic
Coffee is not a diuretic

I am always sceptical of conclusions based on the affect a drug purports to have on a very small percentage of the cohort. Conclusions are more reflective of the need to avoid legal liability than absolute.

For example, the vioxx study.

You give MiracleCure drug to 100 sick people. You give a placebo to another 100. You give nothing to another 300, the control group.

Four of the sick group die. Only 2 of the placebo group die. Only 2 of the control group die.

Shock horror. MiracleCure is deemed to be unsafe, lethal. The chances of someone dying are twice as high.

---And all based on what happened in one part of the world to 4 people. Who, being sick, may have died anyway from any number of causes.

[Javaphile]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Of course type 1 & type 2 are very different diseases and maybe caffeine reacts with type 2 medications.

This is one of the things that people/medicine/science are just now realizing, that type 1 and type 2 diabetes are actually quite different from each other. For decades it has been assumed that what is true for type 1 diabetics is also true for type 2. Current research is showing that such is not the case.

In the last week part of a major study (over 10,000 people studied for 2-7 years) looking at the effects of lowering the blood sugar of type 2 diabetics at high risk for heart attacks and strokes in the US and Canada has been brought to a screaming halt. Past research has shown a clear benefit to type 1 diabetics lowering their blood sugar to reduce their risk of heart attacks and strokes. For decades it has been assumed that such is also the case for type 2 diabetics. When the researchers started processing the data from this study they came to the alarming conclusion that by lowering the blood sugar to normal non-diabetic levels the risk of a deadly heart attack or stroke was increased, not lowered among those at high risk for strokes/heart attacks.

Researchers expected to see a lower death rate in the group with the lower (near non-diabetic normal) blood sugar levels as was the case with people with type 1 diabetes. Instead what the data showed was a 25% increase in the death rate from heart attacks and strokes among the lower blood sugar group. The lower blood sugar group had fewer strokes but when a stroke occurred it was more deadly than in the higher blood sugar group.

This is of course a simplified write-up of the study and by no means is all-inclusive of their set-up or findings and should not be used to modify a treatment program. If you want more detailed info heres a good starting point: http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-02/nhla-ibs020608.php

The main point Im trying to make is that many things about the cycle and treatment of type 2 diabetes are assumptions based off of research, anecdotal data, or even guesses, into type 1 diabetes. As more research is being done more and more differences are being found and many of these assumptions are being proven wrong and are falling by the wayside.


Java "Things that make you go hhmmmm..." phile

[mico]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

My daughter is type 1 and enjoys a couple of cuppas every day - I can honestly say that it has no more effect than what a small glass of milk would (low GI). High GI carb rich food, stress and inactivity on the other hand are the ones to stay away from. Of course type 1 & type 2 are very different diseases and maybe caffeine reacts with type 2 medications.

[Dimal]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

;D ;D Good stuff....

Mal.

[robertmc]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Couldnt say that I was a little penguin... but ya gotta admit the little guy had style.

No ... Im happy feet cos I love to dance... just like the little guy  and I do wear a penguin suit when I dance

[Dimal]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

I just gotta ask.... Youre not a little Penguin are you happyfeet? :

Mal.

[cjhfield]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Yes this mickey mouse "study" was picked up by seemingly every major news service in the western world and has been read by millions. So a whole heap of people are talked out of drinking coffee when the current evidence is exactly the opposite of what was claimed. Still, we will know which journalists will be first against the wall when the revolution comes ;-)

Ill go back to my padded cell now.

Chris

[robertmc]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Thanks Chris

That article is very well presented, and makes a lot of sense. It takes a lot of the hype out of the newspaper journalist beat up of the information.

So from that study we dont really dont gain much new or useful information at all, other than that there are more investigations required.

Thanks again for your tenacity to scientific correctness, and thanks too Javaphile for bringing the newspaper headline to our attention it helps promote dialogue.

I enjoy these threads

Robert

[cjhfield]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Java wrote:

What is incorrect about my statement? The title of the thread is the title of the linked article and the one and only sentence in my original post is a direct quote of the opening line of the linked article.


Yes the journalist who wrote those lines was incorrect. This "study" did not give any patient any coffee. They only gave them caffeine tablets and assumed that was the same thing. Actually coffee consumption improves insulin sensitivity. This means you are less likely to develop diabetes in the first place and if you have diabetes your control may be slightly better on it. It certainly does not mean that people who have diabetes should give up their coffee. ( All things in moderation however, very high intake may have effects that are not known). They should give up their caffeine tablets perhaps but not the coffee. IMHO the statement "Coffee may make diabetes worse" is absolute tripe. Newspapers should let science journalists write about science because unfortunately people believe what they read in the papers.

Here is a link to a summary of this research written by a journalist that understands what they are writing about (from the UK National Health Service):

http://www.nhs.uk/News/2007/January08/Pages/Cutoutcoffeediabeticsurged.aspx

And 2 brief quotes:

"the authors acknowledge that it is uncertain how caffeine affects diabetics"

"The authors themselves point out that the reverse pattern is seen overnight, where caffeine appears to reduce blood sugar levels."

Java wrote:[
Again you are missing the point of the article and making the same mistake that a previous poster poster did. The research you are pointing out is the potential effect of coffee on preventing or delaying the onset of type 2 diabetes. This study is about the potential effects of caffeine once you have type 2 diabetes.


IMHO they are one and the same. You develop insulin resistance and move into a category we call diabetic and years later your insulin resistance gets worse and your control gets worse - its an inexorable progression that most of the current treatments dont stop.


I rest my case your honour :-)
Chris

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

Smee again,

I have been carrying out a little experiment of my own since my last sarcastic post and have found no variance from "My" norm as far as BGL is concerned. I say "My" because I cant speak for anyone else.

I drank my usual 8 or 9 mugs of coffee per day and tested my BGL every two hours from 6am through to 10pm and I found that it was consistently in the range of 5.5 to 7.0; pretty normal. I did not vary my insulin regime in that time.

All I can say is that the alluded effect in type II diabetics is only on those whose BGL is not controlled by some sort of medication. I wonder if we have a Doc in the group who can offer comment?

Cheers,

Wally

[Javaphile]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

The original statement by Javaphile is incorrect. The "study" of only 10 people over 3 days was looking at consumption of caffeine tablets not coffee.

What is incorrect about my statement? The title of the thread is the title of the linked article and the one and only sentence in my original post is a direct quote of the opening line of the linked article.

There is plenty of evidence that coffee consumption reduces risk of type 2 diabetes (lowers c-peptide levels, lowers uric acid). How it does that is not thought to be via caffeine but some other component in the coffee. Clearly this effect outweighs any effect by the caffeine alone. I dont think you can take much from such a tiny sample anyway.

Again you are missing the point of the article and making the same mistake that a previous poster poster did. The research you are pointing out is the potential effect of coffee on preventing or delaying the onset of type 2 diabetes. This study is about the potential effects of caffeine once you have type 2 diabetes.


Java "The devil is in the details" phile

[cjhfield]

Re: Coffee may make diabetes worse

The original statement by Javaphile is incorrect. The "study" of only 10 people over 3 days was looking at consumption of caffeine tablets not coffee. There is plenty of evidence that coffee consumption reduces risk of type 2 diabetes (lowers c-peptide levels, lowers uric acid). How it does that is not thought to be via caffeine but some other component in the coffee. Clearly this effect outweighs any effect by the caffeine alone. I dont think you can take much from such a tiny sample anyway.

Chris