NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

[Lizzie]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

t is the day after, and time to reflect on how truly wonderful yesterday was!
to be able to pull together people from all over the country in the roast off as whole, and yesterday as coordinated NSW/ACT/TAS event speaks volumes about the love we have for coffee, and the fun we have with the roasting of it!

congratulations to Dennis, Greg and RH for being the Sydney favourites!

from my personal perspective, biiiig "thank you"s to:
< the forum community as a whole, for embracing the challenge
< Dennis for taking us Tassies under his wing, with all that that entails, from organising to providing to sending to hosting/tasting
< RH ( and lovely wife) for the hospitality
< Bullitt for being "game" to be the judge for Tasmania
< Polly and partner John for the willingness to come and join in the fun all the way from Hobart
< Adam for his unwavering tech support, photos, fruitcake and willingness to taste the coffee after everyone had finished and the coffee was cold, so as not to pass on his cold germs
< B4B for the yummy fudge angel cakes & big smiles
< and Rob for , as ever, being the patient one, waiting to take me (and the Bott, Ms Carimali & bags of coffee gear) home to reflect on a great day

Roll-on next Roast-off!!

L


PS:
TG: phrrt .... we all had showers last week!! :P

[Christop]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Hi Den,

Thanks for a great day! As the others have said, thanks for hosting us It was good to meet those who were at Dennis yesterday.

Maybe you could just PM the rest of us our results, with some comments?

Thanks
Chris

[Remy]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Heres a picture of Remy watching the judging (shes a bit shy).

it true,.. Im very shy  : ;D.  The mask was a pig to wear all day though,.I couldnt do any tasting because my moustache got soggy and it was too hard to smell anything with that nose.  Hurt like all mightly when I ripped those eyebrows off too when I got home,.  Were they beans I was eating Dennis???....I thought they were chocolate chilli/cardomon coated peanuts... darn mask.  

Anyway,.. apart from not being able to see, smell, or taste anything... I had a wonderful time feeling beans, hands and a few cuddles,... and listening to peoples voices and putting them to forum nic names.  

Twas an awesome day,.. thanks Dennis and Sue for beign such wonderful hosts. Thanks to Vivianne too for driving me the leg from your house to the Roast-Off(Id still be driving around Sydney now looking for it),..and sorry for chewin yer ear off in the car for 90mins each way,lol. The trips went fast though I have to admit.

Great meeting everyone,.. and I learned heaps,.... how to cup,..what tipping is, what a ridge on the back of the bean means,. generally what to look for in the roasted bean,. chocolate chilli & cardomon coated peanuts arent what they seem, what a Friesian (hidden joke for GregJW) is and that Vivianne makes awesome ones,..and what a Piccolo Latte is like. Im sure I learned a lot more than that though.

It was a long day,.. up at 6, left home at 5 to 7 and got to Viviannes at 8:30,.. had of course...an awesome coffee and a croissant with jam and cream for breakfast, while Vivianne whipped up a batch of her beautiful scones,..since I had forgotten to bring a plate of food (read the reminder post late Fri night before bed and was too late to do anything about it). Left the Roast-off at around 5,..back at Viviannes by 6:30 (where I received my second phone call about where and when I have to pick up two of the kids as soon as I get back to Canberra *sigh),...then down the highway to Canberra (where I received 3 or 4 more phone calls asking where I was and playing phone tag and relaying messages between child & father who were both in Canberra aaaaaaargh (what would they do without me organising them to get their act together : > ) .. got to Canberra at 8pm and spent the next hour driving all over Canberra picking up two of the kids and a friend(thank goodness my 3rd child was sleeping over at a friends house) and dropping off a friend to his house on the way back home...(where I copped the full force of an angry mother about her son being dropped home so late - 9pm and why they were left at the Basketball centre to watch national competion basketball games since 1pm,..yadda yadda yadda :,...like I was able to do anything about it,.or even knew about having to drop the friend home until I got that phone call as we arrived back at Vivannes house,.. or even knew that they were at the Basketball centre on their own since 1pm... gees. Yep, I agree...(as she angrily yelled into the car) "not good that two 13yr olds were left unsupervised that long",.....(though they knew many of the players and sat with their parents and at least they werent roaming the streets or getting into mischief).. and I wouldnt have allowed it if I actually knew about it and was actually in Canberra.  I was planning on watching a few of the games with my son in the evening but didnt get back in time(didnt know anything about the friend going until the first phone call at the Roast-off).

So yeah,.. great day,.. but lousy finish.. with my phoning said mother above at 9:30..to apologise and to explain that her concerns and annoyance at me dropping her son home so late and leaving him unsupervised at the Basketball for so long was news to me and a shock to receive from her as I dropped her son off (thought I was doing them a favour bringing their son home *sigh*),.. I told her I was given instructions to round up the children on arriving back in Canberra and I knew nothing about anything of her boys day before that. Maybe she just didnt like my mask   ;D

Ok,.. end of rant  ;D

From JavaB

Id be interested in general comments of the roasts produced by the various methods used..... just to get a better feel on how our different roasters compare......

Well,.. unfortunately mine was a bit of a stuffup from woe to go. The first 250g which I thought I actually nailed despite a disaster roast,.. BBQ barrel,.. but the burners blew out and could not get them going again,.. and finished the roast in a pot on the stove..would have been 10days PR. The second 250g (combined both roasts together) came from a 600g batch and first roast in my new TOSC,..because of the volume of beans,..I noticed some of them were sitting on a little ledge of the base and not being aggitated,.so I had to shake the base a few times to knock them back down into the mass. Vivianne discovered a few wok beans with charred flat sides in one tasting (mine as it turned out) and as I wanted to wait for the arrival of the Stir Crazy base to do that second batch,..this roast was only 5days PR and Vivianne detected this in the tasting too. It was also pulled too early as I panicked when I saw so much smoke with new roaster.

[Viviane]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Woah Remy, before you take my comments too much to heart, I spent my time baking cakes and driving - I didnt put my own beans up there for inspection, and maybe there is a reason for that.  Im also the one who said that a particular roast was a "beginners" roast, it turned out that person has been roasting for at least two years, probably a lot longer.  I think Im trying to say that Im not an expert.

There was some agreement amongst the judges that wed have liked the chance to rejudge the first couple of roasts once we were in the swing of things.  I have memories of pulling some faces while tasting - Id like to apologise and say that it was mostly a combination of coffee overload and toothache.  We werent told how each bean was roasted but the main thing that I took away was that I really couldnt pick the commercial roasters beans.  They were great, but so were other roasts and in the end they tied with a corretto roast.

And Remy, youre right, it was a very quick and pleasant trip both ways, you should phone that parent up though and have a go at her for not speaking to you about getting her 13 yo son home.  Where was she?  Then put TGs mask back on and go around to reinforce the point.

And for those who were there, I was wide awake until 3am playing WoW

[tasadam]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Yeah, something I forgot to mention that I found remarkable on the day, as already mentioned by someone earlier - that so much can change based on the roast.
I am really quite surprised at how much variance there was between the 6 coffees we tried, all based on the same bean.
Shows me that I have even more to learn.

[Remy]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Oh.. no I wasnt taking your comments to heart,. just amazed how the tasters were able to pick out different things in the roasts like they did.  You all did such a fantastic job and I forgot to thank you guys for that in my last post.  Kickin myself for not checking that second roast of mine and pulling rogue wok beans out whaahahaha... I looked at that roast in the bowl yesterday too and thought naaaar,.. well that ones definitely not mine...Phrrrrt!

you should phone that parent up though and have a go at her for not speaking to you about getting her 13 yo son home.  Where was she?  Then put TGs mask back on and go around to reinforce the point.

 
Yeah and exactly,... I did think (but not say),..if she was that worried,.where was she?,..why didnt she just pick him up?  What I did say was,.. "I spoke to my son several times on the phone during the day, and he knew where I was at several points along the way home,..I kept him posted as to what time I would get back to Canberra and what time I will be there to pick him up",..."Didnt your son ring you to let you know?"  Im sorry but I find it hard to cop this on the chin because she had no contact with her son for the whole day,.. as I find out this morning,..she knew he was going to be there watching basketball unsupervised from 1pm to 7pm anyway grrrr.  I live and learn.

And for those who were there, I was wide awake until 3am playing WoW

and thats not WOW as in Andys blend WOW,.. thats World Of Warcraft for those not in the know,lol. We discovered yesterday,... and I was gobsmacked and had to pick my jaw up off the floor,..that our very own Vivianne is a serious gamer geek (Im just a wannabe gamer geek) and a Level 70 at that!!!!! Do you know how hard, and how much work that takes to achieve?? OMG,.. my son has been at it for over a year and is only on about 55 I think. You go girl!!!!! 3am?!!!... whaahaahaha... Im not surprised,lol

[cuppacoffee]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Some further feedback re yesterday...

We had a lot of various means of roasting, including corretto, gene, bbq/wok, 1kg toper and Diedrich. No wonder then, there were so many variations in regard to profile, overlayed with peoples personal preferences.

There was evidence in a number of the entries where surface colour differed from the internal colour. Some samples were darker on the outside than they were on the inside, and vice versa. I think this is mainly due to inconsistent heating - ie. internal bean temp not matching surface temp. Changes to airflow and/or agitation depending on what roasting equipment you have can assist with this. Similar findings to the QLD contingent.

Resting times varied greatly too - the two winning beans had been rested for 9 and 10 days respectively.

Yesterday I showed people graphs of the roast profiles I had used and have decided to share them here. Both profiles were 1kg batch sizes. I think they demonstrate that good results do and can occur with roasts that deviate from the more widely accepted parameters. It would be interesting to overlay Gregs roast profile over these.

Ill pm some specific feedback for people that have requested it.

[JavaB]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Dennis,

Thanks for posting your profiles - I (and Im sure many others) really appreciate you disclosing this information. [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif]

Two very interesting things I note from the profile....

The beans are being introduced at a much higher temperature than most of us do....
There is almost a linear ramp from introduction to dumping (with only a slight reduction in the rate either just before or just after FC....

Now to work out how to emulate that with my PID HT...... Normally beans are introduced with a drum temp of about 80C.... and then there is 21 minutes for roasting...... so I might wait a bit longer and increase the ramp rate after FC.... yours appears to be about 3.75C per minute where I aim at about 2C per minute.....

I can feel some experimentation coming on

And thanks again for making these profiles public!

[cuppacoffee]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Keep in mind that there is an invisible entity (elephant in the room) not readily identifiable in the graphs that was changed 5 times in each profile.......

AIRFLOW

[mwatt]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Hey Den, Id love some feedback PMed please.

Incidentally, and this is by no means relevant data on the home v. commercial debate, but I was able to tell, of the four coffees I tasted, which was Dens roast. I think the comment I made was that it had far more complexity than the other roasts.

[JavaB]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Keep in mind that there is an invisible entity (elephant in the room) not readily identifiable in the graphs that was changed 5 times in each profile.......

AIRFLOW

Ehhhh.... yep..... and that is something most of us have little (if any) control over....... I can vary my puny airflow within a small range (well at the moment the HT does that for me....... but I can feel some radical surgery coming on....... I think the existing D controller will shortly be totally redundant!!! (It only provides timing - and the PID does that as well - fan speed control and the dumping and cooling fan operations at the moment)....... Now a couple of switches, a 555 pulse width modulator for fan speed control......mmmm :)

Whilst I dont believe I will ever be able to emulate one of your roasts..... I CAN have fun trying!!!!

[GregJW]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Hey Den, Id love some feedback PMed please.

Incidentally, and this is by no means relevant data on the home v. commercial debate, but I was able to tell, of the four coffees I tasted, which was Dens roast. I think the comment I made was that it had far more complexity than the other roasts.

Hey Michelle, hope UR feeling a lot better than you were yesterday. Interesting point you raise, would love to have had you there for the whole tasting (notwithstanding Viviannes and Paolos great efforts through the afternoon ). I am under no illusions as to how the quality of home roasts v commercial roasts goes, especially regarding complexity and consistency. I wish you could have stayed for the whole tasting.

I was flattered by Dens positive comments re my roast (and, of course, by the results as a whole) but acknowledge I have a long way to go as far as roasting coffee beans (and general coffee knowledge) goes.

I (as per the majority of home roasters) roast my coffee for the enjoyment of myself and my family (and friends / extended family). There are some commercial beans I have bought that I could only dream of competing with (eg. Andys Espresso Wow and Denniss Yirgacheff). However, in the main, I am more than happy with my efforts and see the philosophy of Home Roasting as one worth pursuing.

The results on Saturday reinforce that belief. That, whilst a commercial roaster may achieve greater depth and consistency, a humble home roaster may achieve a quality of roast that is comparable to the best, if done with passion and self belief.

I proceed with my "home roasting" with my creative and artistic instincts as my main tools and
my main goal to produce the best coffee for my (and my familys) taste / consumption. That is what coffee is / should be - a fresh food that is prepared with the best of ones ability and instincts for ones self / family.

Thank you to the CS community for assisting with the support / information to enable me (and others) to proceed in this quest.

Greg

[mwatt]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Please dont misunderstand me, Im not knocking home roasters! Im one myself! (And not a particularly impressive one, given the response to my roast ).

But this whole business did start with a home v. commercial roasters debate, and I was just observing that I found Dennis roast had more complexity than the other three I tasted (one of which was my own).

Even if you showed me incontrovertible evidence that no home roaster could ever roast as good as any commercial, you know what, Id still do it. As I said in another thread, its such a delightful fusion of art and science and Im hooked!

[GregJW]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Hey Remy,

It was great to meet you at last. Im sorry your day ended with such a downer. She sounds like a real female dog. Thanks for picking the kid up and dropping him home, even though you had to travel 300 kms to do it!!!

Re TGs photos - I didnt notice your glasses on the day (mustve been your mustache that pre-occupied my attention - ever heard of lady dilpapatory? ;D ;D).

Keep up the roasting quest - you have the right creative spark, and your "off tangent" experimentations are indicative of an artistic talent.

Julie and I hope to see you soon.

Greg.

PS Loved Vivs Friesians.

[GregJW]

Re: NSW/ACT/TAS CoffeeSnobs "Roast-Off"...

Please dont misunderstand me, Im not knocking home roasters! Im one myself! (And not a particularly impressive one, given the response to my roast ).

But this whole business did start with a home v. commercial roasters debate, and I was just observing that I found Dennis roast had more complexity than the other three I tasted (one of which was my own).

Even if you showed me incontrovertible evidence that no home roaster could ever roast as good as any commercial, you know what, Id still do it. As I said in another thread, its such a delightful fusion of art and science and Im hooked!

Hey Michelle, I didnt think I was being defensive :-[. I agree 100% with what youve said. And your knowledge / insight into cupping / tasting was very much appreciated (and missed when you had to leave).

Hope you are feeling better.