Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-20

[Jameskilby]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Will be in attendance. Very excited.

[mahalia]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Your not been cynical, just stating the Obvious John

[GR8WineandCoffee]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Further to my previous post>

In my costings, I forgot to consider the following:
Overheads like hire of premises, electricity, loo paper etc

Then we have the course preparation, the advertising, the beans, the roasting, the tasting thingos, etc, etc ad infinitum. Must not forget the Tax paid to Kevin.

So after a re-evaluation of the costings I think the GP would come down to about 20 bills or less per hour per person. Jill would be doing a lot of it for the love of it. Hopefully Lindsay gets paid something decent for giving up his weekend, sharing his IP and expertise. The TAFE profit would be minimalistic, just dont tell them or there will be no more such courses!

I might sound bit cynical,  but really, some people do need to get a grip and think before they post!!!!!

JD

[GR8WineandCoffee]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

I have read with interest some of the comments on this particular post. Some of which really surprise me -

Take out ya calculator:
Cost $550 (for CS members).
Less morinng and arvo Ts x 2  days = $20
Less Lunch x 2 days = $30
Down to about $500 (have not taken out the GST)
Course time say about 12 hours (9-4 minus lunch and breaks)
12 into $500 = $41.66 per hour.

I know Jill Adams, but do not know Lindasy Corby, but I am confident that if this course has Jills name on it (which it does) then it has integrity and is worth a lot more than the $41.66 pp per hour..

As Andy says, the course outline goes something like this:
Day one
The focus is on training your palate to identify different tastes and flavours found in coffee:
1. Sugars, acids, tannins and bitterness tasted separately then in combination
2. Un-roasted coffee components
3. Roasted coffee components
4. Combinations of 1,2&3
All compounds will be tasted in water and in coffee.

Day two
A range of roasted coffees will be tasted to highlight the effects of plant variety, processing
techniques, region and the roaster on coffee flavour profiles:
1. Different Arabica plant varieties from the same place
2. Different processing techniques
3. Different regions/countries
4. Same coffee roasted differently.
5. Growing and processing faults/taints
6. Robusta / different countries and processing

I am fairly confident that persons mentioned earlier like Hazel, Scottie, Emily Oak or Dave Makin would be compensated similarly.

I believe that the class size is limited to about 10 persons.

I have booked in and look forward to expanding my knowledge on coffee.

PS: me thinks that our Saturday nite dinner at Vue de Monde or MoVida (still deciding) might cost more than the training!

By world standards the course is under priced. I would not sell my place for anything!
John Doyle

[mahalia]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Hey Palate people

Im going to the workshop. Coming over from Robe, SA, along with my barista trainer. Hope to meet some other roasters, as am starved of coffee speak !!!

I believe that we are lucky that is type of workshop is on offer, considering that the lecturers are working on their weekend, have taken the time to put this intensive course together (which could of been a financial risk) along with that Australia doesnt have many courses available that tackle the finer details of coffee from roasting, to cupping or green bean grading - besides the obvious of espresso extraction

Mahalia

[raphec]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

if id known about this before i forked out for my landscaping, id have put off the landscape and done this. Hopefully i will be able to make it to a future one.

[Dimal]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

I wish Id been paid a percentage of that.

Me too TG.... But I really enjoyed the work and the opportunities to travel so I was always pretty happy with the arrangement, as no doubt were you.... 8-)

Mal.

[Thundergod]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Comparing the consultancy rates to the course cost was always the perspective I looked at to decide its value.

When I was the Training Coordinator for my last organisation external courses at this kind of price were the norm.

And speaking of consultants rates, when I was auditing a large Y2K project a few years ago my company loaned me out to a couple of affiliate companies at "mates rates" of $3000 a day or part thereof.
That meant that the first 20 minute meeting (plus an hour of travelling time) was charged a full $3k.
No wonder they both insisted I complete the audit in a day.  ;D

We did throw in the report for free.  

I wish Id been paid a percentage of that.

[GrindOnDemand]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

...and any industry leader who consults for $50 per hour is dramatically undervaluing his/her skills  

I totally agree, Chris - but theres a flip side to this debate.

Theres plenty of organisations (especially government based) that pay highly skilled staff a rate thats not in keeping with their abilities, compared to similarly skilled private consultants.

As an example, I have a mate highly skilled in his field as a statistical analyst who worked for CSIRO. He was on a defined salary that equated to roughly $60 per hour. He got jack of his job, & decided to throw it in to re-focus on what hed like to do. 2 weeks later he received a call from his previous manager asking if hed like to return on a consultancy basis to complete a project that hed been working on (because they couldnt find anyone in the organisation with his comparable knowledge & skills)

He didnt really want to do the work, so plucked a $300 per hour rate out of the sky to put on the table to return

They didnt even baulk, & agreed. He finished the project after 20hrs work.

Calculate the difference in earnings he reaped by returning as a sought after consultant

Tony

[Framey]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Is there any chance the course will ever be run in Sydney?

Or perhaps on a regular basis so a trip might be planned interstate?

Is the course affiliated or accredited with either La Trobe or TAFE?

[Dimal]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Mal, I think you are comparing apples to oranges mate. I see no relevance to the mines forking out big money for someones skills/knowledge as they have millions of dollars at stake and we are looking to enhance a sensory experience. I think comparing this to 1 on 1 training with an industry leader like I said is more relevant.

Not so Bon.....

Most of the organisations were industrial, and sited within major populations centres that required specific technical knowledge and experience.... not broad-based. As I said above, that was the minimum charge-out rate, domestic and o/seas mining corporations were charged significantly more. I have also attended several educational seminars over the years too and I know that the people recruited to run these (usually University Professors) were charged out at a higher rate than this, so is not irrelevant in my view,

Cheers,
Mal.

[Dennis]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

....and any industry leader who consults for $50 per hour is dramatically undervaluing his/her skills

DOH!!! ;D

[TC]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

<snip>I think comparing this to 1 on 1 training with an industry leader like I said is more relevant.

....and any industry leader who consults for $50 per hour is dramatically undervaluing his/her skills

[Bon]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

Well, how how much it would take for the the likes of Hazel, Scottie, Emily Oak or Dave Makin to run something like this?

With all due respect Bon, I suspect Hazel, Scottie, Em and Dave would probably be really keen to attend something like this- as its unique and at at whole new level. For industry people of this calibre, it may only be palate calibration but you dont know unless you check. The responses from the last session were along the lines of mind blowing...

Bottom line is that you gets what you pays for and perhaps it not all that wise to place a perceived value on something you have not experienced. :-?

Im going and if the responses of the last group who attended are anything to go by, it will be worth every cent.

Youre probably right, but that is why they are champions I guess - their whole mindset of learning from everybody and even if they only learn 1 little thing, it was worthwhile.

Mal, I think you are comparing apples to oranges mate. I see no relevance to the mines forking out big money for someones skills/knowledge as they have millions of dollars at stake and we are looking to enhance a sensory experience. I think comparing this to 1 on 1 training with an industry leader like I said is more relevant.

[luke_gts]

Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

i think it would be an awesome expirence... i wanna go. i think it would be a bit advance for me right now... maybe the next one....

as a few people already mention, generally you get what you pay for...