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Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-20

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  • #31
    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

    I have read with interest some of the comments on this particular post. Some of which really surprise me -

    Take out ya calculator:
    Cost $550 (for CS members).
    Less morinng and arvo Ts x 2  days = $20
    Less Lunch x 2 days = $30
    Down to about $500 (have not taken out the GST)
    Course time say about 12 hours (9-4 minus lunch and breaks)
    12 into $500 = $41.66 per hour.

    I know Jill Adams, but do not know Lindasy Corby, but I am confident that if this course has Jills name on it (which it does) then it has integrity and is worth a lot more than the $41.66 pp per hour..

    As Andy says, the course outline goes something like this:
    Day one
    The focus is on training your palate to identify different tastes and flavours found in coffee:
    1. Sugars, acids, tannins and bitterness tasted separately then in combination
    2. Un-roasted coffee components
    3. Roasted coffee components
    4. Combinations of 1,2&3
    All compounds will be tasted in water and in coffee.

    Day two
    A range of roasted coffees will be tasted to highlight the effects of plant variety, processing
    techniques, region and the roaster on coffee flavour profiles:
    1. Different Arabica plant varieties from the same place
    2. Different processing techniques
    3. Different regions/countries
    4. Same coffee roasted differently.
    5. Growing and processing faults/taints
    6. Robusta / different countries and processing

    I am fairly confident that persons mentioned earlier like Hazel, Scottie, Emily Oak or Dave Makin would be compensated similarly.

    I believe that the class size is limited to about 10 persons.

    I have booked in and look forward to expanding my knowledge on coffee.

    PS: me thinks that our Saturday nite dinner at Vue de Monde or MoVida (still deciding) might cost more than the training!

    By world standards the course is under priced. I would not sell my place for anything!
    John Doyle

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    • #32
      Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

      Further to my previous post>

      In my costings, I forgot to consider the following:
      Overheads like hire of premises, electricity, loo paper etc

      Then we have the course preparation, the advertising, the beans, the roasting, the tasting thingos, etc, etc ad infinitum. Must not forget the Tax paid to Kevin.

      So after a re-evaluation of the costings I think the GP would come down to about 20 bills or less per hour per person. Jill would be doing a lot of it for the love of it. Hopefully Lindsay gets paid something decent for giving up his weekend, sharing his IP and expertise. The TAFE profit would be minimalistic, just dont tell them or there will be no more such courses!

      I might sound bit cynical,  but really, some people do need to get a grip and think before they post!!!!!

      JD

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      • #33
        Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

        Your not been cynical, just stating the Obvious John

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        • #34
          Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

          Will be in attendance. Very excited.

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          • #35
            Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

            Originally posted by Framey link=1213684751/20#24 date=1215012131
            Is there any chance the course will ever be run in Sydney?

            Or perhaps on a regular basis so a trip might be planned interstate?

            Is the course affiliated or accredited with either La Trobe or TAFE?


            I would also love to know if this sort of thing would be offered in Sydney - it sounds fantastic!!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

              Hi JetBlack Espresso, the course is at William Angliss institute of TAFE, which I believe is one of Victorias premier food training schools. Where apprentice chefs go and learn how to cook they also do Barista training and many other courses.
              But I dont know if its affiliated with Latrobe Uni, also most of our TAFEs in Victoria are now called Universities.

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              • #37
                Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2


                I would also love to know if this sort of thing would be offered in Sydney - it sounds fantastic!!
                Not sure there are plans for Sydney yet but Ill ask on the weekend.

                The next one is early October as far as I know and I expect it to sell out too. Its well worth heading into Melbourne for the weekend to attend, airfares are cheap now and you can get some great accomodation deals in the city if you hunt.

                Im looking forward to it (again) and Im sure there will be a few post-reviews in here next week.

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                • #38
                  Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

                  Im definitely going to keep october in mind - too much on this weekend!!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

                    Originally posted by JetBlack Espresso link=1213684751/20#34 date=1216023209
                    ... I would also love to know if this sort of thing would be offered in Sydney - it sounds fantastic!!
                    yeah, and Brisbane!

                    Much needed in this desert of tasting courses. With Veneziano about to open shop (... well soon :), hopefully thisll change somewhat.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

                      Originally posted by JetBlack Espresso link=1213684751/20#34 date=1216023209
                      Originally posted by Framey link=1213684751/20#24 date=1215012131
                      Is there any chance the course will ever be run in Sydney?

                      Or perhaps on a regular basis so a trip might be planned interstate?

                      Is the course affiliated or accredited with either La Trobe or TAFE?


                      I would also love to know if this sort of thing would be offered in Sydney - it sounds fantastic!!
                      ... watch this space...


                      Em :-)

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2


                        Not sure there are plans for Sydney yet but Ill ask on the weekend.
                        It might happen! The idea was floated and it didnt sink so as Em suggested above, "watch this space".

                        Brisbane? Sorry I didnt ask GrindOnDemand. I guess it all depends on how much local demand you can drum-up!

                        I missed yesterdays session but was there today and I can tell you that everyone that I spoke to really got a lot from the whole weekend.

                        Today I caught-up with a lot of CSrs and met some new coffee faces that are driven to improve their craft and understanding and are looking forward to taking their coffee to new levels which has to be great for the coffee scene all over the country.

                        There was even a surprise session this morning about Aussie cocoa with pre-production samples of local chocolate. Im sure we will hear more about this exciting "new" industry in the coming year too.

                        Unique, educational, fun and great value!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

                          It was a great weekend.

                          A bunch of chemicals found in roasted coffee were presented individually in their pure form (first few rounds dissolved in water on their own, then blended together and finally tasted in a solution of brewed coffee = 14 flights of tastings. Min sample size 5, max 9).

                          Caffeine*** solution was both a highlight and lowlight. Taste-wise, it sucks. But it showed me that for a balanced a cup, a little bitterness is good (is this the same as secondary extractions??).

                          Day 2 was much more fun, with various rounds of traditional cupping. We looked at the effects of temperature with roasting, cupped a bunch of coffee that was grown where the terroir was pretty constant (same farm), but variations in varietal and processing method. Looked at some Aus chocolate (Samoan choccy sucks ass). Talked about green bean faults as well as roasting faults.

                          Andy Freeman brought in a Malawi roasted with some parameters fixed (drop temp, turn, 1st crack and dump temps) but varied the heat for ramp up temps and method.

                          Day 1 was great, but mentally exhausting.

                          Day 2 was much more fun in a coffee related sense. Multiple flights of traditional cupping. Less brain activity involved, but the cupping was intense.

                          ===============================

                          With regards to the cost. I felt that it was worth it.
                          Most of the particiapants either roasted their own coffee, or at least had a say in the roast levels that they received in their cafes.
                          There were a couple of part-time and home baristas (10-15%). Everyone seemed to have learnt something from the day. This should be a course that appeals to both ends of the spectrum - commercial and home roasters.





                          ***Try chewing on a panadol to get an insight into the taste of caffeine.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

                            What they said...

                            It was an exhausting, challenging but exhilarating weekend and if I can apply even 10% of it, a quantum leap is guaranteed.

                            The preparation behind the weekend was phenomenal with days of work behind the scenes to get everything ready.

                            Day 1- Lindsay expertly guiding us through countless runs of coffee compounds in water to train the palate and then the opportunity to see how these compounds contribute to coffee flavour and aroma. I am dumbfounded as to how much I learned.

                            Day 2- Chocolate at 10am and no guilt (all in the name of science)  , a eureka moment session where Andy showed just how much roast profile influences whats in the cup. We cupped identical in appearance samples of one origin and the difference in the cup- mind blowing  . CSers- EVERY home roaster needs to experience this.

                            Many more cuppings throughout the day and lots of networking and fun banter.

                            Thanks to Lindsay (and his poor lab tech), Jill and Mel- brilliant organisation and wonderful food, Andy and the roasters who provided samples for us to sip and slurp our way through.

                            CSers, all I can say is do whatever you can to get yourself into this workshop. Sell the kids if neccessary! Its an absolute bargain and for me was an ephiphany.

                            Chris

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                            • #44
                              Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

                              Whens the next one?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Palate Training & Sensory Analysis - July 19-2

                                ...a eureka moment...
                                (insert Andy blushing here)

                                For a non-teacher, its a strange thing to stand in front of a room full of peers and coffee industry people and try and tell them something that they didn’t already know after their many years of experience. Luckily for me there have been no rotten tomatoes lobbed yet.

                                I love sharing some gems that I have learnt in my journey and really get a kick out of giving someone a “eureka moment”. I had a couple of roasters say on the day “wow, that was a real eye opener” in a similar vein to you so all in all I’m pretty happy with the way my dizzy eclectic rant went. Thanks!

                                Originally posted by E-Gene link=1213684751/40#43 date=1216612716
                                Whens the next one?
                                I heard a rumour of first week in October but dont know for sure. The best bet would be to drop a line to Jill or Mel at the Coffee Academy
                                http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1211437063

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