The Golden Bean 2013 - Coffee Roaster Competition

[chokkidog]

Baked flavours are unmistakable ......... harsh, metallic, dirty and sit over your tongue like a salty, sweaty saddle, almost wrapping downwards around your tongue.

Some people describe 'baked' as being flat and lifeless, this relates more to the excessive degradation of the sugars and acids and is a different fault.
There is nothing flat and lifeless about baked coffee.
Old green beans can taste flat and woody, like pine wood. (Cedar notes are a positive taste descriptor).

Roasts don't really stall, not in the way motors do, just stopping dead with no further motion,........ however,
stalling is commonly used to describe roasts where the °RoR flatlines, or goes negative, for a prolonged period, from near the end of first crack onwards.

In my learning curve I've baked more than my share of coffee. I went through a period, following a 'roasting workshop', where my roasting seriously
fell off the rails. As I was doing what I had recently been taught, I didn't know what was going on. The 'new' technique was supposed to improve the coffee!

One night, when the house was filled with this stench from the grinder and I was almost in tears of despair, I decided to take some samples and go
cupping with some industry people I respect and who I thought (hoped) could identify the problem and help me resolve it.

I mean ........... my coffee stank, it was awful. Well, I got sorted pretty quickly after that. The advice and information was spot on accurate
and I turned things around in 1 roast, when I got back home.

I have run public cuppings since that time and can now replicate a baked roast easily and have it next to an over-roasted sample to show
common roast faults. The two samples are distinctly different in taste but similar in their horribleness!

It amazes me when people have picked either of these as their 'fave' coffees of the session........ unbelievable.

Baking occurs when sugars are caramelising and the °RoR flatlines or goes negative for too long. The roast is most vulnerable to baking, (as mentioned above in posts #109 & #110)
from about mid way through 1st crack onwards.

I thought I had saved the profile but it's not there........ next time I'll save and post it.

I don't believe for one second that baked flavours can be roasted out............ but they could be burnt out! ;-D


Tipped beans= too hot at the start of the roast; either roaster parts (drum, etc) and/or heat inputs which excessively and unevenly dries out the germ(ination) end
of the bean. The tipping marks then become apparent at the end of the roast when this part of the bean over-roasts.

Scorching = excessive conductive heat from 180°C onwards.

[GrahamK]

I dont believe there is a specific temp but as a rule of thumb, after First Crack there is a period of roast development time until you reach your required roast depth depending on your requirements. Less than about 3 mins can end up underdeveloped and greater than about 6 minutes starts to get that baked leathery taste. Of course all this will also depend on other variables, bean type, roast profile etc.

My 2 bits worth.

GrahamK

[Barry O'Speedwagon]

The circumstances under which i *think* I suffer from this problem are when I back off the temp too far after onset of first crack, and basically 'stall' the roast, though I (correctly or otherwise) understand that a similar effect can occur at other stages of the roast. I can pick those ones by taste....but buggered if I could describe it eloquently.

[trickydicky2]

Could it also be a cooling defect? I'm really intrigued by this fault

Is there some sort of "bake zone" of temperature to avoid like the plague?

[chokkidog]

From what I've gleaned from a few sites, baking is a result of internal bean temperature not continuing to rise fast enough. You can remove the baking flavour by roasting at higher temperature but of course you flirt with two things, (1) more chance of tipping and scorching and (2) likely brighter/more acidic espresso.

Can't say I agree with the above.
From what i have read baking is the least understood roasting defect.
Scorching and tipping both relate to specific and different phases of the roast cycle.
Acid decreases as roast level increases.

The above post #106 requires an in depth response, tho' the answers can all be found in other threads.
My poor aching feet need a rest. I'll throw in my two bob's worth later but in a different thread, or I'll post links to the info already available.

[kwantfm]

From what I've gleaned from a few sites, baking is a result of internal bean temperature not continuing to rise fast enough. You can remove the baking flavour by roasting at higher temperature but of course you flirt with two things, (1) more chance of tipping and scorching and (2) likely brighter/more acidic espresso.

[trickydicky2]

Got mine too. Similar level of criticism to those above. In my score sheets there were two ratings per coffee (i.e. 2 judges sampled each one). First page for each coffee shows total of both judges' scores (out of 80)

Average score of silver medals 50.7/80

Average for bronze medals 41.3/80

Best result was 53.5

It would be interesting to see GB publish the avearge scores of gold, silver & bronze for each class of the competition. How much of a gap is there between the home roasters and the comparable commercial classes?

With the feedback, I got a lot of comments specific to each coffee. Main areas for improvement for me overall - Eliminate "baked" taste, improve balance and flavour strength

Balance and flavour strength I think I understand well enough to act on, but does anyone know what causes a baked taste, how to recognise it and how to avoid it?

Cheers...

[fatboy_1999]

Oh good. It's not just me then!
I suppose it should all be taken as constructive critisism.

[kwantfm]

Just got mine too... despite winning a bronze I found the feedback to be very confronting... surprised that I won anything at all given the general negativity of the comments!!!

[fatboy_1999]

Just got my score sheets and judges notes via email. Also got PDF's of the certificates.
I'm tipping some people will have a larger zip file attached to their email than mine

[sidewayss]

None so far malliemg.

The other place getter did not get his either. Am sure others would find the feedback useful.

Been a fun and confusing Golden Bean for these two years.

Last year we did not get feedback for quite some time til someone asked about it.

This year the comp bags did not arrive til a few days before closing date and some of us were getting concerned knowing we have to roast, ship and allow travel time.
Express post was a necessity.

Having said that, we are all human, and the Golden Bean will go from strength to strength and things as well as competition improving.

[malliemcg]

Anyone got judges feedback yet?

[trickydicky2]

Nice haul.
How are you planning to beat that next year?

Thanks!

If I'm around next year I will have another go for sure. 8 coffees was too many though. I should really spend some time to select just one or two and allow more time to get the roast right. This year, quite a few were just made up on the fly and (other than checking straight out of the roaster) tasted by me as rested blends for the first time after the comp results came in.

[dbd]

Nice haul.
How are you planning to beat that next year?

[trickydicky2]

Got a package today. Medals have arrived!

Me too