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New Payment Platform - Osko, NPP, PayID etc.

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  • New Payment Platform - Osko, NPP, PayID etc.

    Some of you would have heard of the NPP (New Payments Platform), the rest of you will hear about it at some point this year via your bank. As far as I can tell it will called the NPP forever, even when it's no longer "new". Gotta love those clever people in the marketing workshops.

    Philip Lowe, Governor of the Reserve Bank of Australia said:
    "It’s the kind of development that only takes place once in a generation"
    The cynic in me says that's because it will be such a painful a transition that none of us would want to attempt it ever again.

    The idea is good, fast payments (near instant) instead of the huge lag we currently have with bank transfers and it should work on public holidays and weekends which the the current banking transfer methods don't.

    Different banks are calling it different things but in theory all their implementations will be a route to the underlying system that will allow faster and more detailed payment transfers between individuals and businesses.

    1: Basic Infrastructure - the underlying system is the network provided by SWIFT (you might know them from International bank transfers or the Telegraphic Transfer "TT" system)
    2: The FSS (Fast Settlement System) is run by the Reserve Bank of Australia and handles the inter-bank settlements.
    3: The overlay services are the interfaces that we see from our own bank. The first is called Osko.

    Is the interface provided by BPay and the first adopter in the NPP. As the first interface most people will see I expect it will become a verb when people are talking about the NPP.

    For an individual, your PayID will most likely be your mobile phone number.
    For a business it will be ACN or ABN or BSB+Account number

    The NPP was released February 2018 but here's the gotcha. Not all banks or all bank account types support it 15 months later.

    We use a little Australian bank called Westpac (who are actual a part owner of the NPP) and they have released PayID for personal customers but not for Businesses and the best I can get out of anyone in the organisation is "soon". To make matters worse, they have released it to some business customers in South Australia and the Northern Territory (guinea pigs) so more and more people think that all accounts have access to it.

    What happens if I Osko to an account that doesn't support it?

    We have had a handful of people send us Osko payments and the payment quietly bounces back to the sender. This leaves the sender thinking they have paid and wondering why we didn't ship to them or us asking them to check their payment only then to find it bounced back (after half an hour of email back and forwards).
    Far from efficient until the bugs are ironed out and yes, driving me nuts already!

    In theory for CoffeeSnobs any of the below should work when they get their act together:
    ACN: 164539502
    ABN: 86164539502
    BSB/Account: 033344288002
    ...but these are only a best guess as Westpac business hasn't deployed it yet.

    Currently all BeanBay payments can either be via PayPal or EFT:
    (ie: nothing to see here, normal methods are working fine)

    PayPal (with their actual fees added on to the BeanBay total)

    EFT / Internet transfer (no fees for us, no fees for you):
    BSB: 033344
    Account: 288002

    It's a bit of a dogs breakfast at the moment and I don't know how the current "export transactions" will work in the BeanBay back-and which is how we reconcile payments each day but as we know more we'll post in this thread or update this post.

    Clear as mud?


    YES, we can accept Osko payments now.

    You can OSKO to our BSB and ACCOUNT

    BSB: 033208
    Account: 445122

    Or if you use PayID you can use our ABN:

    PayID: 86 164 539 502

    It works well, fee-free and near instant even on weekends and public holidays and is the fastest, lowest cost way of moving dollars around.
    Yes, and I'm using it
    No, I can't use it
    What the heck are you talking about?
    Yes I can, but I haven't bothered to yet

  • #2
    Strange.. you would think (and I thought) that a osko sent to a non osko would just revert back to going on the older slower system. In fact, my bank (pnbank) says this on their site:

    ...when you select 'Pay Someone' and chose to 'Pay Now' the payment will automatically select the quickest route....

    And backs it up with:

    ..Our Internet Banking or Mobile App will automatically work out whether the payment can go by Osko, arriving faster...

    Admittedly, I have no where near the volume of transactions you do, but apparently my bank was one of the earliest adopters of this, and I have ignored it completely... Till I started receiving instant payments as other banks took up the npp.

    Hope this irons out quickly for you as I can't imagine the headaches it must cause you.


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jackster View Post
      Strange.. you would think (and I thought) that a osko sent to a non osko would just revert back to going on the older slower system.
      Yes, that would make sense, but sadly not all banks have deployed like that.

      Your P&N Bank (I had to google that!) is smart enough and small enough to use logic, I also know (as of this morning) that Australia Bank will also do the same but other banks in the last week don't, they just quietly bounce the payment leaving payer and payee to flap their arms around. Sigh.

      P&N Bank = 350 Employees.
      Westpac = 35,000 Employees.

      ...what's that saying about tanker turning circles.


      • #4
        There should be a big disclaimer put on the "instant transfer" part.

        I tried PAYID once (and only once) with my bank (CBA) last year and it took more than 24 hours to be cleared. I only found this disclaimer below after the other party notified me they didn't received payment next business day:

        From CBA website:
        Transfer money to friends and family using their PayID as quickly and easily as youtransfer money between your CommBank accounts. First time payments to a new payee may be held for up to 24 hours as a security measure.
        My payment submitted before 3pm finally went through next day around 8pm. Normally most bank transfer done in business hours would appear next business day! Normally its not a biggie, but it just had to happen when I was in a hurry !

        Furthermore, I believe this holding rule even applies PAYID linked to CBA accounts, meaning if I transferred money from my CBA to another CBA account using PAYID , i would have to wait for at least 24 hours. I have learn my lesson not to use PAYID for first time payments with CBA now.. other banks have other restrictions on first time payments . ie transfer amount/holding time. so check before you use PAYID with your bank.
        Last edited by justacuppa; 24 May 2019, 03:53 PM. Reason: additional info


        • #5
          Wow, even more worms that I didn't know about.

          I'm sure one day it will be as seamless as using your Visa card but we'll have a bit of hassle before the dust settles.


          • #6
            I think your poll needs another option - "Yes I can, but I haven't bothered to yet, I will give it a try when I need to." When you add that option in then I'll vote.

            Once it's working, and once I've used it once for Beanbay (I'm also with CBA), then this will be a better option than Paypal and its fees for a last minute order. In saying that, Andy seems to trust that regular customers of long-standing will pay, but I'd feel better that he has my money in his hot little hand before he starts to roast for me.


            • #7
              ...unless it's your first payment to BeanBay and the bank holds it longer than an old fashioned slow payment.

              Vote away.


              • #8
                Voted. As I say, I haven't used it yet. It's a useful warning to build in more lead time for the first payment, but second and subsequent payments should be fast, since that's the whole point of the new system.


                • #9
                  Originally posted by gunda View Post
                  Voted. As I say, I haven't used it yet. It's a useful warning to build in more lead time for the first payment, but second and subsequent payments should be fast, since that's the whole point of the new system.
                  I would have said that the whole point of the system is for first payments to be fast as well.

                  Here's a thought: If everyone including the gummint thinks this is a good idea, just fine the non-conforming banks 1 million dollars a week each until they conform. And if they don't process a payment instantly, make them pay both the payer and the payee 5% each, per hour, of the transaction value. Up to a maximum of double the transaction value.

                  You can probably tell I dislike banks... even before the Royal Commission found that they are in fact all criminals. Just as we suspected.


                  • #10
                    I've used it with our ING account. Sent 2 payments using PayID (phone number), people got them within 1 minute.
                    I have received 3 payments to my PayID, also got them within a minute or 2 of the send.

                    We also bank with Westpac and the Osko logo comes up regularly for a number of payments we make.
                    I have transferred money from WBC to ING and it has been immediate.

                    Hopefully it will get better for higher volume users.


                    • #11
                      The so-called “24 hours as a security measure” should read “24 hours to allow the toe-rags at the receiving bank to make interest on your money for the day”


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fatboy_1999 View Post
                        I have transferred money from WBC to ING and it has been immediate.
                        Which is also part of the problem, Westpac personal accounts can do it so it's easy to assume the business accounts can too.

                        When the dust settles it might be great system just like the NBN (way to drag a thread off-topic Andy!)


                        • #13
                          I always pay with PayPal as I leave the order to the last minute and am desperate! But I hate that PayPal get a decent cut from each transaction. Having other “instant” payment methods would solve this.

                          I really should just order ahead....



                          • #14
                            Could set it up through NAB if I felt the need.

                            Bank funds transfer does all I want.


                            • #15
                              Intrigued to read this...

                              Been using it for a long time via ING and never had an issue.

                              Didn’t think it would let you send to anyone without it. Doesn’t make sense if they haven’t setup in the system.

                              Why wouldn’t you set up a way to get payments around quicker rather than waiting the day(s) for transfer to complete?

                              Found it handy so far.