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**robusto** · 2 May 2007, 09:31 AM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

Lizzie, thats very interesting -- one minute from second crack for the decaf colombians. I find that just on second crack is too much -- they are already very dark and exhibiting an oily surface.

For that reason Ive done just one batch. I might give it another go.

--Robusto

**Lizzie** · 2 May 2007, 12:52 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

Robusto, i checked yesterdays beans again, and they are dry, mid to dark brown and smell nut/chocolate coffee. they are definitely smaller post-roast than last weeks batch so i assume that fc was not as effective becaue of the longer ramp up time but...

i also checked last weeks batch "under the light": they are now much less "puffed up" than straight after they were roasted (see pic in roast profile for comparison), and there is some oil on most of the beans.
their aroma is richly chocolate/sweet spice/coffee.

for comparison i put both roasts on one plate: yesterdays on the left, last weeks on the right.

and how is this : my husband, who doesnt drink a lot of "real" coffee, commented last night,
when i was grinding the de-caf for my nightly treat:" wow, you can really smell the chocolate in that one!!".... ;D ;D

**bolb** · 2 May 2007, 02:06 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

Hi Robusto / Lizzie

I roast 450gm batches each week of Colombian SW Decaf for a friend (he drinks unleaded) and i find that if i roast to just on 2nd crack then the beans are alway dry and a chocolate colour but not overly dark.
It generally takes 2 - 3 days for any oils to be released from the bean.

I did take the beans about 1 min into 2nd crack but found that the result was exremely dark and oily. I find that roasting decaf requires more visual skill as the beans are darker to start with and depending on the quality of light in the garage / time of day etc. you can dont notice too much of a change in bean colour from between 1st crack and just into 2nd crack.

I dont drink the stuff but am told it is very nice and a much nicer flavour than what can be bought from coffee supplies around the traps. I grind it up for my friend in both a espresso and plunger grind.
He has commented that he finds it difficult to find decaf coffee types of different flavours, you can by flavoured coffees in full strengh but when it comes to decaf its generally a colombian bean.

Mal

**marcstolk** · 2 May 2007, 03:06 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

I have a blended decaf which is a fantastic coffee in its own right..

Its a Blend of Colombian, Guantamanlan and Brazil, Swiss Water Process. It is best roasted just on the start of 2nd crack.. any further and you lose the sweetness and bitterness comes into play.

Marc

**richy_4000** · 2 May 2007, 04:21 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

Hey Marcstolk, where did you get the decaf blend from? Did u buy them green or roasted?

**Lizzie** · 2 May 2007, 06:17 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

ok, de-caffers....me thinks it is time to clear up some confusion.
( and just to make sure that i got it right, i rang 5 Senses for confirmation...)

the 5 Senses-supplied Colombian de-caf which i am roasting and enjoying so much is NOT a Swiss Water decaf!!!
it is a Citric Acid decaf, totally different process, totally different bean, and clearly different roast tolerances.

5 Senses also sells a SW decaf, but it is a blend of 3 different beans and does NOT have the Colombian in it ... (sorry, they did tell me, but i forgot the blend...)

from the responses on the forum i gather that beans treated the ""Swiss Water de-caf" way are not tolerant to going much past SC.....
whereas in my (agreed, :

still limited!!) experience the Colombian citric acid de-caf still does not present as "really dark brown espresso roast" more than a minute into rolling SC, and, by the way, produces very little smoke.

does this help??

L

**Fulcrum** · 2 May 2007, 09:37 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

I think its time for a roast off!
I currently have 4 green decafs: 2 from 5 senses, colombian swp and an ethiopian sidamo decaf.
It seems I have been too conservative in my roasting so this weekend I will do some sample roasts of varying, darker degrees on each bean and see what the results are like.
I still cant believe quite how nice the 5 senses decaf is. I had it again this morning and didnt feel like I was missing out on anything; even after making my wifes 2 full strength caps.

Gavin

**Lizzie** · 2 May 2007, 10:14 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

looking forward to the results, Gavin!!

L

**JavaB** · 5 May 2007, 05:28 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

Originally posted by Lizzie link=1177763728/15#20 date=1178090240

the 5 Senses-supplied Colombian de-caf which i am roasting and enjoying so much is NOT a Swiss Water decaf!!!
it is a Citric Acid decaf, totally different process, totally different bean, and clearly different roast tolerances.

from the responses on the forum i gather that beans treated the ""Swiss Water de-caf" way are not tolerant to going much past SC.....
whereas in my (agreed, :

still limited!!) experience the Colombian citric acid de-caf still does not present as "really dark brown espresso roast" more than a minute into rolling SC, and, by the way, produces very little smoke.

does this help??

L

Well having spent a few hours with Lizzie this morning (thanks Lizzie), I must say Im VERY impressed by Lizzies roasting of this bean...... superb full bodied espresso...... one of the better ones Ive tasted (including non-decaf beans).

The beans look great... with a little oil - but in the cup the taste is superb - much better then any other decaf Ive tasted (I normally steer clear of decaf beans as I find them disappointing - lacking in body and mouth feel).

Id certainly recommend trying this bean if you have the opportunity.

**Lizzie** · 5 May 2007, 06:34 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

DingDing.... another de-caf convert!!! ;D ;D

Thanks JavaB, you make me blush... but, seriously, this de-caf is so easy to roast even a relative newby like myself ends up with a beautifully rounded cup of "guiltfree" PM coffee...

tadada dadada dadada De-Caaaaf!!!

;D

L

**richy_4000** · 6 May 2007, 12:14 AM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

Yeah Lizzie

I agree, decafs awesome. Its great to be able to drink coffee so late, relaxes you before bed...haha, how paradoxical - coffee for relaxation! Admittedly itll never be as good on average as a normal bean (though Lizzies sure sounds pretty good), but its an important trick in the barista/coffee lovers bag to produce great espresso when caffeine must be avoided, for whatever reason.

I just had a ristretto of my SW Columbians (at 11pm ;D) a blend of half dark roast and half lighter roast. Mmmm, pretty good 8-). Id love to get hold of some beans other than Columbian though, particularly a Brazilian or another good espresso-blend-base-bean. We should ask Andy if he can get some for the next bean polls.

Now that ive had a strong coffee, its time for bed, HAHA.

**Fulcrum** · 7 May 2007, 10:51 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

So I did 3 roasts of the 5senses decaf on Saturday. This is a pic of the 3 roasts plus a comparison of the 5senses sample roast:
Top left: 230C for 21 min
Top right: 235C for 21 min
Bottom left: 240 for 20.5 min
Bottom right: 5senses roast
I tasted them this morning and despite the poor extraction I am very happy. The 240C roast has a rich flavour that really lingers. The other 2 have a less intense flavour. The best part, for me, is that there is no acidic aftertaste so it makes a pleasant change from the swp colombian that I have. I have done longer roast of the other 3 decafs I have and they will be tasted tomorrow.

Gavin

**muppet_man67** · 8 May 2007, 11:16 AM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

Originally posted by Fulcrum link=1177763728/15#26 date=1178538675

I tasted them this morning and despite the poor extraction I am very happy. The 240C roast has a rich flavour that really lingers. The other 2 have a less intense flavour. The best part, for me, is that there is no acidic aftertaste so it makes a pleasant change from the swp colombian that I have. I have done longer roast of the other 3 decafs I have and they will be tasted tomorrow.

Gavin

I also find the swp guatamalin fairly acidic, Its a fine line between roasting longer to try and reduce this and burning the beans. I dont think they will take anthing more then 30seconds from the first snaps of second crack without tasting a wee bit charred.

**Lizzie** · 8 May 2007, 05:05 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

good looking roasts there, Fulcrum....

were these beans( control and roasts) the 5Senses 3 bean decaf blend or the SO Colombian Citric Acid decaf?

L

**Fulcrum** · 8 May 2007, 06:26 PM

Re: DECAF - any decaf lovers/experts out there?

LIzzie

These were the SO colombian.
I did longer roasts on all my SWP decafs and although the longer roasts improved them, the aftertaste is still there.
The sidamo decaf was good but had lost most of the sidamo character. The 3 bean swp decaf from 5 senses had a nice flavour with the least aftertaste of the three. THe Colombian decaf was better than my previous roasts but not good enough to have me drink it too often.

Gavin

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