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Where's the syruppy goodness?

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  • Where's the syruppy goodness?

    Hi all
    Been doing some great roasts recently, lots of fabulous variations using a wide range of beans (lots of centrals/indos/afr/indians currently). Getting some good varietal flavours & great aromas, both through milk & in espressos, and right in the zone in terms of roast depth & flavour strength.

    However, one thing I haven't nailed yet (which I distinctly remember on occasion from some commercial blends) was a rich, syruppy body & mouthfeel in a doppio, which I'd love to be able to reproduce. Kinda tastes/feels in the mouth like Werthers Originals! Or that syruppy hit when you finally bite into an anticol :-)

    My question is: is this a roasting issue, or are there any particular beans that have this in spades, which I could add to a blend? I haven't used any southerns for a while - is this where the Brazil & Columbians excel?

    Ta in advance :-)
    Matt

  • #2
    You can expect syrupy pours from the South American and Centros, Indos and Indians. Some Africans tend to be a bit thinner.
    Grab some of the Peruvian or knock up a KJM blend which, in my experience, has more body than most other blends I've tried.

    I don't think it is a roasting issue as most of my pours are syrupy however I haven't used a corretto for several years. What grinder are you using these days?

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    • #3
      Hi Flynn
      I have done a number of KJM style roasts, and do have some peru here, so might have another go of that :-)
      Recently more of my roasts have been central/africans/indo/png - and haven't achieved that level of gloop that I'm thinking of. Not that they're thin & lifeless, just not as much body in a dopp as I'd expect.
      One big Leichhardt supplier I used to buy browns from had a couple of blends with big body. One in particular, as a doppio, was like there was syrup sitting in the bottom of the glass - the last mouthful was almost solid! Never had anything like it since…

      Grinder is Macap M4 (brand new burr set), through a Diadema Reale. So hopefully shouldn't be gear related :-)

      Matt

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      • #4
        I have found darker roasts to have more syrupy espresso pour. Have you tried pushing your roast a little darker and see how that impacts the mouthfeel in comparison?

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        • #5
          I have tried some darker roasts, but found they just tend to get bitter in flavour as I go past the very first snaps of 2C.
          It's odd - there's no worries about these roasts punching through milk, and the pours are great with heaps of crema - so there is loads of 'strength' in flavour - but it's just a bit thin in mouthfeel… bit hard to describe really!

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          • #6
            I will echo the slightly darker roast. Last 2 roasts have been Gambella and Uganda K, both stopped between start of 2nd crack and rolling 2nd crack.

            I drop the brew temp 2 to 3 degrees, grind finer and dose lower, I aim for about 25 grams of espresso from 16 grams of coffee, I find any more than this and i start to get out of balance with the bitterness.

            It really rolls around in my mouth.

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            • #7
              I find the pour from the Reale to be more syrupy if I reduce the dose and tighten the grind a tad (mind you I'm still going 21g in a 'double' basket....but it has headroom)....I guess it depends where you presently sit on the dose/grind combo. Been making some blends with the base a split between Brz and India Elephant Hills, and the rest shared between Gambella, Sulwesi Tana and sometimes a central.

              I tend to stop the roast as close to second crack as I can go without it starting....so not super dark.

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              • #8
                Both Steve and Barry are using beans known for their body, Sulawesi, Gambella, Kisoro and (some) Brazils etc.
                For body it's about your bean selection and how you roast. A fast roast will lighten the body
                with a longer roast increasing the body, also a lower charge temp will highlight body but your profiles
                are probably ok as far as that goes. Roasting darker than what you already are shouldn't be necessary.

                Experiment with a bean known for it's body, roasting as an SO.
                Getting a good pour will help but won't produce body that's not already there.

                Cheers.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Barry O'Speedwagon View Post
                  I find the pour from the Reale to be more syrupy if I reduce the dose and tighten the grind a tad (mind you I'm still going 21g in a 'double' basket....but it has headroom)....I guess it depends where you presently sit on the dose/grind combo. Been making some blends with the base a split between Brz and India Elephant Hills, and the rest shared between Gambella, Sulwesi Tana and sometimes a central.

                  I tend to stop the roast as close to second crack as I can go without it starting....so not super dark.
                  Hi Barry
                  Roasts sound similar. I have noticed that with the new burrs that I've been dosing a little 'fuller' with same technique, but still getting slow pours, so I'll try finer grind/lighter tamp to try reduce dosing, see if that makes any difference. :-)
                  Matt

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by chokkidog View Post
                    Both Steve and Barry are using beans known for their body, Sulawesi, Gambella, Kisoro and (some) Brazils etc.
                    For body it's about your bean selection and how you roast. A fast roast will lighten the body
                    with a longer roast increasing the body, also a lower charge temp will highlight body but your profiles
                    are probably ok as far as that goes. Roasting darker than what you already are shouldn't be necessary.

                    Experiment with a bean known for it's body, roasting as an SO.
                    Getting a good pour will help but won't produce body that's not already there.

                    Cheers.
                    Howdy
                    I thought those beans would fall into the 'big body' basket, so that's what surprised me.
                    I might try some Java as a SO (out of Blue!) then maybe play with my dosing, and keep tweaking that roast profile - don't think I'm too far off!

                    Thanks everyone for the quick feedback :-)

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                    • #11
                      Update: Well, it is in the profile :-)
                      Mocha Java variation (350 Ugandan, 250 PNG, 100 El Sal) with the following profile, and I've got good body, and this morning the beautiful syruppy gloop in the last mouthful as a doppio. Like pure coffee oils :-). I have done this blend lots of times - but this is the first time I've got these results.
                      Pays to keep playing!
                      Matt


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                      • #12
                        I followed the other thread by using 4:3:2 on Peru:Eth:Java to rolling 2nd crack.

                        Have a very thick syrupy shots now compare to my previous blend of just Eth:Java

                        Had more punch to the flavour on day 3 of roast but now on 8th day lost some of it in a milk base drink but still coming out in globs.

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                        • #13
                          Nice :-)
                          Still got some Peru - have to give it a go!
                          Matt

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