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Thread: Disappearing Crema

  1. #1
    sy
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    Disappearing Crema

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Ventured down to BBB last Friday and bought my 1st batch of freshly roasted beans - Mr Mles Blend.

    I thought this would be a good blend to start with and the description mentioned good crema. Checked the roast date on the packaging when I got home and it had the 27th but did not indicated which month - I assumed July (puchased 31st July).

    Anyway, after trying a few different grind settings I found every shot I pulled had plenty of crema (almost too much) -looked like the head of a beer. However the crema almost disappeared within the time it takes me to heat the milk (less than 30 sec).

    Trying to understand why this is the case, Im sure the grind is correct, tamp seems fine and the pressure/pour time seems okay.

    After reading a few threads Im thinking this is due to the beans being too fresh? Just wanted to make sure and if this is the case - how long should they be stored for before I grind.

    Not sure why they sell bean so close to the roast date if this is the case - at very least they should advise accordingly.




  2. #2
    A_M
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Quote Originally Posted by 747E070 link=1249474421/0#0 date=1249474421
    Ventured down to BBB last Friday and bought my 1st batch of freshly roasted beans - Mr Mles Blend.

    I thought this would be a good blend to start with and the description mentioned good crema. *Checked the roast date on the packaging when I got home and it had the 27th but did not indicated which month - I assumed July (puchased 31st July).

    Anyway, after trying a few different grind settings I found every shot I pulled had plenty of crema (almost too much) -looked like the head of a beer. *However the crema almost disappeared within the time it takes me to heat the milk (less than 30 sec).

    Trying to understand why this is the case, Im sure the grind is correct, tamp seems fine and the pressure/pour time seems okay.

    After reading a few threads Im thinking this is due to the beans being too fresh? Just wanted to make sure and if this is the case - how long should they be stored for before I grind.

    Not sure why they sell bean so close to the roast date if this is the case - at very least they should advise accordingly.



    Try them morning and night until they run out... At some stage you will say .. Now thats a good coffee... Thus you have discovered the resting time... Some time later you will say... It turned to crap... Opps you have found teh cut off date...

    For that batch of beans..

    Every batch and every different bean type will be different... Some more than others...

    In general between 3 and 14 days... Resting... But that is a rough guide ONLY and dependant on how / where and what they are stored in......



  3. #3
    sy
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    so would it be fair to assume that my disappearing crema is due to the freshness of the beans AM or am I doing something incorrectly?

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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Hey sy,

    We prolly need to know what equipment your using too, can be detrimental, machine, grinder, tamper, pressurised/non pressurised baskets.......yada yada yada

    cheers

  5. #5
    sy
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    thanks guys

    SB 6910 & 0480
    non pressurised basket (I have thrown out the pressurised baskets)
    SB tamper

    As I mentioned in my 1st post - this is my 1st foray into freshly roasted beans. I have only had the machine about a month and the 1st few weeks I was using lavazza supermaket beans. Contrary to all the opinions regarding supermarket beans, these were not that bad - the crema was quite good although the taste was a little too acidic compared to the Mr Miles blend beans I just purchased and the various other varieties I have tried inside BBBs.

    I have tried to remain consistent with tamping and the amount of coffee placed in the basket. Initially I found the extraction time with the new beans to be somewhat longer (almost choking the machine) so I just adjusted the grind settings (a little more coarse - setting 17 on the 0480). Im getting almost perfect pressure point on the gauge of the 6910 with these settings. The puck after extraction seems fine no channelling etc

    I noticed this blend of beans has some monsooned beans in it after reading about this on wiki was wondering if that had anything to do with it. Not sure if im a fan of monsooned beans after reading about them.

    Anyway this is half the fun, I actually finished these beans this morning - exactly 10 days after the roast date and still the same disappearing crema. Im going to drop past Veneziano today and try one of their blends and observe the differences.

    cheers,
    Sy

  6. #6
    sy
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    forgot to mention these beans have a very early blonding compared to the lavazza also

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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Hi Sy

    While it is not entirely accurate, I think the combination of Disappearing crema, early blonding and 17 on the grind leads me to think the grind/dose tamp is out.

    I know all the EM0480s are different but 17 seems quite high on the scale...

    Have you done the free SB course yet?

    As an example, we were happily grinding away on 15/16 on ours, then my wife did the course and got shown proper grind/dose.

    She came home and did some practice and ended up at 9 on our grinder. The result was more stable crema and no blonding. Also we are dosing less.

    So possibly try fining up the grind and dose a bit less so as not to choke the machine.

    As a rule she was told the metal part of the sidewall of the tamper should go around halfway into the basket when tamped.

    See how you go.

    Chris

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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    did you use the Lavazza beans with the pressurised baskets? just wondering.....as those baskets create crema, great idea with getting the Veneziano beans too, itll give you a bar to work off.....

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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Sy,

    Personally, I wouldnt worry about the crema dissipating. Crema does that. As long as youre confident that your grind/dose and tamp are all ok, and youre getting a steady flow within the 30mls/30seconds time range, dont worry about it. Different beans have different amounts of crema and the stability of the crema will vary also.

    How does it taste? Thats the no.1 factor.

    FWIW, up until recently I used the same equipment as you, and depending on the beans, was grinding on 17 sometimes.

    In regards to the Mr miles blend, Im not a fan of it. But I do like what BBB/7S are doing. the attention to detail is amazing. Try their espresso blend, its a great beginners bean as its easy to work with and the results are very nice.

    -ACog

  10. #10
    sy
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    thanks for all the replies guys.

    Im not getting too hung up on this, just trying to understand the many things that cause variances/differences etc. I guss we are all somewhat fussy about our coffee/equipment which is why we come here - im the type of guy that like to understanding things inside out and have everything fine tuned - allbeit in very prompt timeframes.

    I might like to add im quite enjoying the whole experience - I find it challenging and very rewarding.

    WSully - no didnt use the NP basked, threw them out.

    cksyd - doing the SB course this sat. I hear you regarding the 0480 grind setting, however on any setting below 15 it takes a very long time for any grinds to come out. On 15, if I dose to the level suggested (halfway on the tamp) - the machine chokes. The lavazza beans could take a grind setting under 10 without any issues. I have gone through 3 0480s in 3 weeks due to a few faults/issues and every single one of them was completely different in grind settings

    ACog - thanks for the reassurance. I just came back from BBB this morning - could help myself ended up buying their Black Cult blend. I drink their espresso blend daily (love it btw) so wanted to try soemthing diferenent. I must say their beans seems to be fresh - these have a roast date of 3rd August - the aroma around my desk at work is amazing.

    Anyway the journey continues - can wait to get this next installment into my grinder and experiment tonight.

    thanks again for all the responses - has given me many things to think about.




  11. #11
    Senior Member GregJW's Avatar
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Hi Sy,

    Monsooned Malabar (for me) has always been characterised by a dissipating crema (crema starts off large but after 30 secs or so, starts to disappear). I usually have it as a single origin (and love its distinctive flavour!) and I dont know how much is in the BBB blend (but good on em for using it). These days Im pretty organised when Im using MM, it doesnt last long enough to dissipate - either as an espresso its down the hatch *;) or Im steaming the milk as its espressing.

    One thing to note about the MM, however, is that (for me and most other snobs who like this bean) it doesnt reach its peak until about 14+ days post roast. You may have finished yours off before the flavour profile had fully developed.

    Anyway, try the Veneziano beans (Im sure you wont be comparing them to Lavazza *;D). You might also want to consider Andys (Coffee Snobs) Espresso Wow (WOW!) and Denniss (Cuppacoffee) World Blend (out of this world!).

    Enjoy the journey.

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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Quote Originally Posted by 717B020 link=1249474421/9#9 date=1249518362
    I must say their beans seems to be fresh - these have a roast date of 3rd August - the aroma around my desk at work is amazing.
    Youre in for a rough day. A few weeks back I had 6 bags of BBBs beans sitting on my desk. I struggled, the aroma was pure torture without an espresso machine in sight.

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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Quote Originally Posted by 0B3E292B061B4C0 link=1249474421/10#10 date=1249518533
    You might also want to consider Andys (Coffee Snobs) Espresso Wow (WOW!) and Denniss (Cuppacoffee) World Blend (out of this world!).
    I can second that, Espresso WOW is the reason im here.....it is still the best coffee ive ever tasted, as for dennis.......hmmmm might have to order some of that! :)

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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Quote Originally Posted by 464C350 link=1249474421/9#9 date=1249518362
    no didnt use the NP basked, threw them out.
    I hope that you meant that you threw out the pressurised baskets - the non-pressurised baskets (which I assume you mean by NP) are the ones you want to be using! ;)

    Edit: whoops, read your post further up indicating you are using pressurised baskets - never mind :)

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    A_M
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Quote Originally Posted by 29235A0 link=1249474421/9#9 date=1249518362
    Im not getting too hung up on this, just trying to understand the many things that cause variances/differences etc. *I guss we are all somewhat fussy about our coffee/equipment which is why we come here - im the type of guy that like to understanding things inside out and have everything fine tuned - allbeit in very prompt timeframes.
    If this is so... Get the pills out ASAP, cause you going to be very frustrated...

    There are so many variables that impact either directly or in directly on making a good coffee; that they can not all be put down in any one method / process / formula. Further more some of these inputs are out of your control and their impact is not always so obvious....

    It is not like maths... It is a touchy feely science where concepts and reality offten do not work together as you might expect / assume...

    If you accept that, you will be fine.. If you cant... Switch to TEA :o

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    sy
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    Re: Disappearing Crema

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I was never any good at maths and frankly it bores the crap out of me.

    Totally get your point regarding developing a formula or method, im just trying to understand what factors contributed to this issue.

    My favourite pastime is fishing - I compare this whole coffee experience to that of fishing. There is no formula I can use to catch my desired fish everytime I go, and there are heaps of variables at play. But it does not stop me from wanting to understand why I dont catch fish and what factors may have cotributed to that result.

    The fact that there is no set formula to fishing is why I love it - and my new obsession with coffee seems to be the same.

    How boring would it become if everyone could pull a perfect shot by following some kind of process - would not be much discussion going on in this forum anyway.

    Appreciate your words of wisdom :)



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