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Thread: Stupid question....double shots.

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    Stupid question....double shots.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Guys apologies in advance but I have read different versions on pouring doubles and am now confused......

    A double shot should be 50 - 60 ml but what should the pour time be??? still the 25 - 30 seconds, 40 - 45 seconds or simply twice the time i.e. 50 - 60 seconds..... I have searched quite a bit and there is many different views out there..... l

    Be gentle..... :-X

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 293B373835686A6A5A0 link=1258705607/0#0 date=1258705607
    25 - 30 seconds

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 594B474845181A1A2A0 link=1258705607/0#0 date=1258705607
    Guys apologies in advance but I have read different versions on pouring doubles and am now confused......

    A double shot should be 50 - 60 ml but what should the pour time be??? still the 25 - 30 seconds, 40 - 45 seconds or simply twice the time i.e. 50 - 60 seconds..... I have searched quite a bit and there is many different views out there..... l

    Be gentle..... :-X

    Depends on what you want in the cup and ya beans and the basket...

    However in general; it is understood that water at 92C exposed to coffee grounds at 9bar for 30 seconds will see teh optimum coffee oils extracted.

    After that, you get more caffeine and other stuff that usually makes teh coffee taste bitter. That why many of us like what is called a ristretto shot... For some this means pulling the shot early - 20 to 25 sec = ME

    For others, they also change the grind and pull it at about 25sec.. And others have their own way...

    Many in the USA run a longer shot and if ya ever try to drink it ya know why it is bitter or covered up with syrups...

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    FWIW there was a paper by Dr Ernesto Illy, "The Complexity of Coffee" (google finds it) that nicely showed why 30 seconds - one of the compounds extracted, with a "rancid" aroma/flavour, makes a sudden jump in concentration after 30 sec while the nice flavours (choc, *cinnamon, etc.) were fairly steadily increasing.

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    hmm.... I would say that it also comes down to what size baskets your are using and what equipment you are working with - I have no trouble pulling 40ml shots over 50sec using 20g baskets and 2ml flow restrictors

    But then again my machine (supplies by site sponsor Veneziano) has been specifically designed to handle this sort of capacity...

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 74646675627E070 link=1258705607/3#3 date=1258719257
    FWIW there was a paper by Dr Ernesto Illy, "The Complexity of Coffee" (google finds it) that nicely showed why 30 seconds - one of the compounds extracted, with a "rancid" aroma/flavour, makes a sudden jump in concentration after 30 sec while the nice flavours (choc, *cinnamon, etc.) were fairly steadily increasing.
    Thanks, I found the article very interesting but now that I understand the process and by-products of coffee production, Im concerned Im going to have to purchase carbon credits. *;D

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5F6463786B79620C0 link=1258705607/5#5 date=1258773925
    Quote Originally Posted by 74646675627E070 link=1258705607/3#3 date=1258719257
    FWIW there was a paper by Dr Ernesto Illy, "The Complexity of Coffee" (google finds it) that nicely showed why 30 seconds - one of the compounds extracted, with a "rancid" aroma/flavour, makes a sudden jump in concentration after 30 sec while the nice flavours (choc, *cinnamon, etc.) were fairly steadily increasing.
    Thanks, I found the article very interesting but now that I understand the process and by-products of coffee production, Im concerned Im going to have to purchase carbon credits. *;D
    SSSHHHHsssssss We will not tell if you dont... ;)

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Thankyou all for your replies.

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 627270637468110 link=1258705607/3#3 date=1258719257
    FWIW there was a paper by Dr Ernesto Illy, "The Complexity of Coffee" (google finds it) that nicely showed why 30 seconds - one of the compounds extracted, with a "rancid" aroma/flavour, makes a sudden jump in concentration after 30 sec while the nice flavours (choc, *cinnamon, etc.) were fairly steadily increasing.
    Looks like an interesting read, printed it and will digest a little later over a cappa.
    Heres the link. http://www.podmerchant.com/coffee/co...-of-coffee.pdf

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    This always confuses me also, especially when ordering at cafes. I am pretty sure most cafes use double baskets by default therefore every espresso would be +/-30mls. Yet when you ask for a double shouldnt it be more than 30mls. That is, a double double (2 separate shots). I could be wrong....

    I have synesso double baskets but stop extraction by sight so I never really know or bother too much about the amount of mls in my cup, I know the taste is good so am happy.


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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F202A3C2B2F3D2C4E0 link=1258705607/9#9 date=1258945953
    This always confuses me also, especially when ordering at cafes. *I am pretty sure most cafes use double baskets by default therefore every espresso would be +/-30mls. *Yet when you ask for a double shouldnt it be more than 30mls. *That is, a double double (2 separate shots). *I could be wrong....

    I have synesso double baskets but stop extraction by sight so I never really know or bother too much about the amount of mls in my cup, I know the taste is good so am happy.
    Dont bet on it.. I know plenty that use singles ;) Even when doing two small cups... You in effect get half a shot..

    I once asked and teh comment was with a true double... People complain that it is too STRONG and TOO bitter.. :D ;D :o ::) :P

    What does that tell ya...

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 727D776176726071130 link=1258705607/9#9 date=1258945953
    This always confuses me also, especially when ordering at cafes. *I am pretty sure most cafes use double baskets by default therefore every espresso would be +/-30mls. *Yet when you ask for a double shouldnt it be more than 30mls. *That is, a double double (2 separate shots). *I could be wrong....

    I have synesso double baskets but stop extraction by sight so I never really know or bother too much about the amount of mls in my cup, I know the taste is good so am happy.
    I would also have expected 50-60ml in a double shot.

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.



    Appears as though it wasnt such a silly question after all!!!!

    Have had to go back to the drawing board with my new toy and the more I read on this, the more I started second guessing myself. I too pull short......

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 564448474A171515250 link=1258705607/12#12 date=1258955008
    I started second guessing myself. I too pull short......
    Is ya partner aware of this ::)

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    espresso/ristretto
    single/double

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 76595052457A56595650525A525943370 link=1258705607/13#13 date=1258955164
    Quote Originally Posted by 564448474A171515250 link=1258705607/12#12 date=1258955008
    I started second guessing myself. I too pull short......
    Is ya partner aware of this *::)
    I had a laugh!! Receiving a brand new GPP is my excuse.... *:)

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    The bloke I bought my Vibiemme from has a very nice coffee and cafe business and he ALWAYS uses the double shot basket, even for singles.

    He maintains that the shot consistency is worth the bit of wastage and he confirmed my thoughts that getting a good shot from a single is much more of a challenge unless youre doing it all the time. He runs the second spout into a glass and keeps it for iced coffees.

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5C67607B687A610F0 link=1258705607/16#16 date=1258962656
    The bloke I bought my Vibiemme from has a very nice coffee and cafe business and he ALWAYS uses the double shot basket, even for singles.

    He maintains that the shot consistency is worth the bit of wastage and he confirmed my thoughts that getting a good shot from a single is much more of a challenge unless youre doing it all the time. He runs the second spout into a glass and keeps it for iced coffees.
    Interesting, what quantity of espresso does he finish up with in the cup, 15 or 30 ml?

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Good question. I didnt think to ask although if he poured a 30ml single shot, over extraction would be an issue for sure.

    Ill ask him.

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    If it is an espresso then it should be around 30ml, 15ml would be shorter than a ristretto.

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6668656A7D6B6A040 link=1258705607/19#19 date=1259026898
    If it is an espresso then it should be around 30ml, 15ml would be shorter than a ristretto.
    My point exactly, is it 15 ml in the cup and glass for a total of 30 or 30 in each for a gushing total of 60?

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Ive sent him an email, so I hope he answers that.
    Tony

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 675B524A5F3E0 link=1258705607/20#20 date=1259028359
    My point exactly, is it 15 ml in the cup and glass for a total of 30 or 30 in each for a gushing total of 60?
    It is a double so you would be expecting 60ml which is not a gusher! Are you saying you should only extract 30mls from a double basket?

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    A shot should take 25-30 secs for either 30ml from a single basket or 60ml from a double basket and I would assume 90ml from a triple basket.
    But you can obviously do whatever you prefer.
    I happen to like a single shot from a double basket (in around 15-20 secs) but if I am making coffee for me and my wife I just go with 2 singles from a double basket (in 25-30secs)

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 78767B746375741A0 link=1258705607/22#22 date=1259030741
    It is a double so you would be expecting 60ml which is not a gusher! Are you saying you should only extract 30mls from a double basket?
    Im not saying you should do anything, what I am saying is to my taste 60 ml in 30 seconds from a double basket (approx 14 grams) is pretty watery, my preference is double basket 30 ml in 30 seconds (liquid gold) :)

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Ah well that depends on what sort of a double you are talking about I always use 18g so it doesnt get so watery, that said I am a big fan of the 20sec ristretto (40mls). But now we are getting to personal preference so there is no wrong answer.

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 58565B544355543A0 link=1258705607/25#25 date=1259040012
    Ah well that depends on what sort of a double you are talking about I always use 18g so it doesnt get so watery, that said I am a big fan of the 20sec ristretto (40mls). But now we are getting to personal preference so there is no wrong answer.
    Guess we all agree on that. :)

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Here is the reply I got from my coffee machine retailer (VBM)

    Hi Tony,
    A single shot basket should have 30ml extracted in 25-30 seconds. *A double shot basket would have 30ml coming out of either side in 25-30 seconds, or 60ml if you were to put just one cup underneath instead of two cups.
    An espresso shot should always be around 30ml, if it is only 15ml it would be a ristretto.
    Does that make sense, because it is easy for me to understand on this side.
    Let me know.
    thanks
    XXXXXX

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 62595E4556445F310 link=1258705607/27#27 date=1259110908
    Here is the reply I got from my coffee machine retailer (VBM)

    Hi Tony,

    A single shot basket should have 30ml extracted in 25-30 seconds. *

    A double shot basket would have 30ml coming out of either side in 25-30 seconds, or 60ml if you were to put just one cup underneath instead of two cups.


    An espresso shot should always be around 30ml, if it is only 15ml it would be a ristretto.

    Does that make sense, because it is easy for me to understand on this side.
    Let me know.
    thanks
    XXXXXX
    Agree..

  30. #30
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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    I agree too!

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Sooooo, my preference for 30 ml from a double basket in 30 seconds is in fact a double ristretto? I think. :-?

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    I had a laugh, I will just stick to my method. :D

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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by 49757C6471100 link=1258705607/30#30 date=1259124448
    Sooooo, my preference for 30 ml from a double basket in 30 seconds is in fact a double ristretto? I think.
    I would consider that a short ristretto (if that exists) and if you want to be snobish (and who doesnt) a doppio ristretto. ;D

  34. #34
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    Re: Stupid question....double shots.

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 5A61667D6E7C67090 link=1258705607/27#27 date=1259110908
    Hi Tony,
    A single shot basket should have 30ml extracted in 25-30 seconds.A double shot basket would have 30ml coming out of either side in 25-30 seconds, or 60ml if you were to put just one cup underneath instead of two cups.
    An espresso shot should always be around 30ml, if it is only 15ml it would be a ristretto.
    Does that make sense, because it is easy for me to understand on this side.
    Let me know.
    thanks
    XXXXXX
    Its always seemed a bit vague this subject, this explanation states what I suppose should be the obvious but it isnt always that straight forward to put thoughts into plain english. Thanks for asking the question. :)

    Steve.



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