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Thread: Sugar in coffee!

  1. #1
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Sugar in coffee!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Let us discuss the debate: sugar..... in coffee! :D

    What are peoples opinions on using sugar in coffee? There are differing views on it, one being that A beautifully made coffee doesnt need sugar. When i started out in the coffee world, my thought was that sugar brings out the flavour of the coffee (but NOTE, i certainly do NOT hold that view anymore!).

    I believe that sugar makes anything tastes better than it was, hence sugar making a crap coffee taste better (or at least okay), and if i have made a not-great quality coffee (or are served one), i will use sugar.

    SO! does anyone here drink their coffee with sugar? And what are our thoughts? Im sure the in cupping comps there is no sugar added :D...

    I believe that adding sugar doesnt allow for the true flavours of the coffee to be experienced, and it just plain makes it sweeter. However i will add sugar if it just tastes like hot water... (hrrhhhmm... stale pre-ground coffee... :D). Brewing the espresso beautifully, and skilfully steaming and sweetening the milk through aerating it will suffice... (even though it is never a perfect process..)

    Thoughts?

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    As a latte drinker (yeah yeah I know... although I do tend toward piccolo lattes at home) it really depends on the ability of the barista making the cup

    A great coffee then Ill not have any sugar - theres no need the flavour is good

    A not so great coffee and Ill throw 1/2 a sugar in to ease the pain

    A terrible coffee and Ill throw at least 1 sugar in to keep it down ;)


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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4953575554495102483A0 link=1259145482/0#0 date=1259145482
    A beautifully made coffee doesnt need sugar.
    Tend to agree with that sort of view. At home I never use sugar, when Im out I tend to go a couple of spoonfuls.

    I would have said its outright unnecessary but I remember (long ago) having some mexican s.o. just as a standard shot. Smelling the beans in the roasting tubs there was such an overwhelming caramel smell that I was well keened for a sweet, dark drop, but what I was smelling in bean form didnt quite come out in the cup (much more muted) and a quarter teaspoon of sugar just gave it this lift and fit my expectations from the scent of it.

    So maybe with some sorts of coffee if you are aiming for a particular taste you may need to adjust, like a chef using their seasonings.

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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    If the coffee is any good then it shouldnt need sugar. When getting take away coffee I have answered the question of whether or not I want sugar with the answer "good coffee wont need sugar, Ill leave it up to you ;)"

    Properly steamed milk is sweet anyway and I find that even friends that say they have sugar in their coffee go without when they have coffee at my house 8-)

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    I always enjoy asking friends and guests to try my coffee first before adding sugar explaining that well steamed milk is sweet. I love watching the reaction as they take that first hesitant sip. More often than not they forget about the sugar

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    This has been discussed soooo many times and I only use the following as an example of how we tend to justify our own particular brand of snobbery.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C3A2D263C3B2321480 link=1259145482/3#3 date=1259148677
    If the coffee is any good then it shouldnt need sugar.
    So I guess that means you only drink good coffee black?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C3A2D263C3B2321480 link=1259145482/3#3 date=1259148677
    Properly steamed milk is sweet anyway
    Nope, looks like you adulterate it with milk to mask and change the flavour.

    Some will say an espresso is an adulteration, but I really dont fancy chewing crushed coffee rolled up in fat for my pick me up.

    Thats all just a pretty long-winded way of saying, each to their own. ;)


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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 18393232352F5C0 link=1259145482/5#5 date=1259149882
    Nope, looks like you adulterate it with milk to mask and change the flavour.
    aahhh.... but is it from a freshly squeezed cow? ;D

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    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 69484343445E2D0 link=1259145482/5#5 date=1259149882
    This has been discussed soooo many times and I only use the following as an example of how we tend to justify our own particular brand of snobbery.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C3A2D263C3B2321480 link=1259145482/3#3 date=1259148677
    If the coffee is any good then it shouldnt need sugar.
    So I guess that means you only drink good coffee black?
    No it means I only drink bad coffee with sugar

    Quote Originally Posted by 69484343445E2D0 link=1259145482/5#5 date=1259149882

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C3A2D263C3B2321480 link=1259145482/3#3 date=1259148677
    Properly steamed milk is sweet anyway
    Nope, looks like you adulterate it with milk to mask and change the flavour.

    Thats a leap if ever I saw one ;D

    Just because I know steamed milk is sweet doesnt mean that I drink milk based drinks, I know arsenic is poisonous, never drank any myself ;)



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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E584F445E5941432A0 link=1259145482/7#7 date=1259150490
    No it means I only drink bad coffee with sugar
    Ah, ok. Personally, I just leave t.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5E584F445E5941432A0 link=1259145482/7#7 date=1259150490
    Thats a leap if ever I saw one
    Im quite good at that! But surely in this case, not so much of a leap...just a hop! ;D


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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    When tasting a new coffee I tend to try it on its own, then with a few drops of milk, then espresso with just a few grains of sugar then with a few drops of milk and grains of sugar. Each method seems to bring out different aspects of the coffee. For pleasure I add no sugar or milk but Mrs Grendel likes her coffee with a little added sweetness. I have long since learned that rolling my eyes at this is a bad idea.

    As Dennis said - each to their own.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Sure to each his own, however I think it is fair to say that people are less likely to put in sugar once they have tried well made coffee (with or without milk). I try not to roll my eyes....even when the sugar droppers stir it in and ruin my latte art ...I had a laugh.

    For me personally I try very hard to avoid aestablishments serving a coffee which I feel needs sugar...usually i would rather just pass. A few weeks ago I was desperate for one after a big night out in Bangkok....and regretted it as even with a couple of sugars it was hideous!

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Like Dennis says, each to their own, but I suspect that a lot of people add sugar to their coffee because they feel that it is otherwise too bitter. Some of the most obvious hallmarks of decent coffee roasted well are that it is fairly sweet and low in bitterness. By "fairly sweet", I mean in the order of a 5 to 10 g/L sugar solution. Different people will have different sensitivities to bitterness and sweetness and will want to treat it differently, but I suspect many people decrease their sugar (and milk) consumption as their progression along their coffee journey leads them to drink better and better coffee.

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Have to agree with Dennis and Luca on this one.

    I used to have sugar in coffee. Then as I got better at making/roasting I used less and less to the point I dont. Or as Luca has pointed out my palate has changed along my coffee journey.

    And as Dennis has pointed out if the coffee is bad I leave it. I used to add sugar but now my palate has changed to the point that I cant drink it no matter how much sugar I put in.

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Danny Luca and Bass, the assumption you are making is that people who add sugar or milk

    A.... Are using poor quality beans.

    B.... Dont know how to pull a decent shot

    C....Dont appreciate quality coffee and would not know a good shot from a bulls roar.

    You dont allow for or fail to appreciate the fact that palates vary, Ive been enjoying good espresso/cappuccino for 40 odd years, always have and always will add a few grams of sugar Im a bit of a sweet tooth, SWMBO on the other hand drinks cappuccino/long black and uses no sugar at all, neither of us are right or wrong, simply different preferences, you cant impose your taste/values on others, everyone sees/tastes things differently.
    Danny, the sad thing about your latte art is that one way or another your art work is gonna finish up as milk scum at the bottom of the cup :(
    Guess what Im saying is, crusade all you want, in the end people will drink their coffee exactly the way they want to. ;)

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    Senior Member Shotgun's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    When it comes down to it, some people like Spinach but I cant stand it. Some prefer Espresso and others Late. Others prefer sugar but many dont.

    I sometimes think we should all get a life and simply enjoy whatever it is we enjoy.

    End of story.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Came across this discussion whilst looking for the right place to post a big thank you to Andy for getting me last order to me SO PROMPTLY!!!! Dont know if this is the right place - sorry very newbie on posting - but cant go past pointing out that I ordered brown beans Tuesday, they were roasted Wednesday and low and behold they arrive in my post box this morning!!! YEAH! Just finished two beautiful black Peru Ceja de Selva in a row - both with sugar - like Jon W I say let people enjoy their coffee how they like it!! I agree that as I have progressed in my coffee journey I have used less sugar - but like some others I have a sweet tooth and providing Im not using sugar to mask BAD coffee I should be able to enjoy it how I like it!!

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    For years I have said:
    "Add sugar because you want to.. Not because you have to."

    If the coffee you are drinking HAS to have sugar added to be palatable then you shouldnt be drinking it. At that point coffee is a drug only and no longer worth the discussion, and barely only worth the walk to the trash receptacle.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F5C535944627A133D0 link=1259145482/16#16 date=1259197123
    For years I have said:
    *"Add sugar because you want to.. Not because you have to."

    If the coffee you are drinking HAS to have sugar added to be palatable then you shouldnt be drinking it. At that point coffee is a drug only and no longer worth the discussion, and barely only worth the walk to the trash receptacle.
    That is the key point...

  19. #19
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Great discussion.

    Sure to each his own, however I think it is fair to say that people are less likely to put in sugar once they have tried well made coffee
    Totally agree. Whilst we can say to each his own, i guess what im hoping to get to is what sugar actually does to coffee. It sweetens it, and doesnt allow for the full taste of the brewed bean.

    You dont allow for or fail to appreciate the fact that palates vary, Ive been enjoying good espresso/cappuccino for 40 odd years, always have and always will add a few grams of sugar Im a bit of a sweet tooth, SWMBO on the other hand drinks cappuccino/long black and uses no sugar at all, neither of us are right or wrong, simply different preferences, you cant impose your taste/values on others, everyone sees/tastes things differently.
    Danny, the sad thing about your latte art is that one way or another your art work is gonna finish up as milk scum at the bottom of the cup Cry
    Guess what Im saying is, crusade all you want, in the end people will drink their coffee exactly the way they want to. Wink
    Yes, to each their own, and i will never say that to drink coffee in this way or that way is wrong. I am saying that adding sugar makes anything taste better (within reason). So therefore sugar in that sense, can take away the value of the essence of something. It could impose onto the drink something which appeals to the sensationalist (just a thought! :) ).

    I used to have sugar in coffee. Then as I got better at making/roasting I used less and less to the point I dont. Or as Luca has pointed out my palate has changed along my coffee journey.
    Different people will have different sensitivities to bitterness and sweetness and will want to treat it differently, but I suspect many people decrease their sugar (and milk) consumption as their progression along their coffee journey leads them to drink better and better coffee.
    Me too, i think it is a journey of discovery and moving forward in terms of appreciating the senses. I am progressing forward, and i think it is a matter of growing and really exploring further the depth of the senses.

    Once again, not saying it is wrong or bad or weak to stick to the drinks you like and to drink how you like. Thats great, and i am merely discussing the merits of sugar in terms of developing an acquired knowledge, exploration, and moving forward. I believe in not fixating on one style, as moving forward allows for greater experiences, discovery and insight (once again ;), nothing wrong with liking certain things in a certain way, this is just me ;) ).

    And sure palates vary, everyone is different, everyone has different sensitivities, preferences and limitations. To me these are different stages on a journey. Whether we would prefer to stick with our preferences is up to us, and is fine.

    We could so lead this onto a spiritual discussion, which seems to be where im taking it hehe :D. Interesting topic me thinks :)

    P.S.
    I try not to roll my eyes....even when the sugar droppers stir it in and ruin my latte art ...I had a laugh.
    does ANYONE else cringe when they see this? hahaha... does anyone here add sugar onto the froth and DESTROY IT?!?!? i see this all the time! *shakes fist* I had a laugh.. i personally eat the froth with a spoon and enjoy it :D

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by 100A0E0C0D10085B11630 link=1259145482/18#18 date=1259198707
    P.S. Quote:
    I try not to roll my eyes....even when the sugar droppers stir it in and ruin my latte art ...I had a laugh.

    does ANYONE else cringe when they see this? hahaha
    Actually I was just trying to be funny....I usually have a good laugh with my guests about this ...I dont take my latte art that seriously *;)

    John...What crusade? You incorrectly assume that I have made those blanket assumptions. I was just giving an opinion that many add sugar because they havent been served a good coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 300B0C1704160D630 link=1259145482/14#14 date=1259196018
    I sometimes think we should all get a life and simply enjoy whatever it is we enjoy.

    End of story. *
    ...well actually I thought this forum was for people who have a life and would also like to have interesting discussions about coffee * :)

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 383D323225345C0 link=1259145482/19#19 date=1259203348
    John...What crusade? You incorrectly assume that I have made those blanket assumptions. I was just giving an opinion that many add sugar because they havent been served a good coffee.
    All makes for stimulating discussion though doesnt it? you may well be right about the sugar, Ive been served coffee in some establishments that no amount of sugar would rescue. :(
    Quote Originally Posted by 383D323225345C0 link=1259145482/19#19 date=1259203348
    ..well actually I thought this forum was for people who have a life and would also like to have interesting discussions about coffee *
    I agree. :)

  22. #22
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    I have a friend of European extraction whos idea of bliss in a cup is Nescafe, half fill with milk and 5 heaped teaspoons of sugar not stirred :o he wont deviate from his beverage of choice.
    I know, its a bit of a joke, but is he wrong? I dont think so, most of us would find the concoction revolting but he likes it and thats all that matters. :)

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 063A332B3E5F0 link=1259145482/21#21 date=1259204511
    I have a friend of European extraction whos idea of bliss in a cup is Nescafe, half fill with milk and 5 heaped teaspoons of sugar not stirred :o he wont deviate from his beverage of choice.
    I know, its a bit of a joke, but is he wrong? I dont think so, most of us would find the concoction revolting but he likes it and thats all that matters. :)
    Yes, I dont think any of this is a case of right or wrong...I have a friend who hates my "cold coffee"...he will only drink coffee which is "scalding hot". Yep hes the guy who asks the barista if he has a microwave oven handy, I had a laugh

    But I agree that if he likes it that way then good for him!

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Well Im sweet enough so I dont need to add sugar ;D
    And if wifey wants it sweeter, I just lick the rim of her cup.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 7A56555057666E390 link=1259145482/23#23 date=1259210156
    Well Im sweet enough so I dont need to add sugar *;D
    I need to replace the sweetness I give away. But not necessarily by adding sugar to coffee. Get my sugar by other means
    Regards
    Crisp Image

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 21242B2B3C2D450 link=1259145482/22#22 date=1259205497
    Yes, I dont think any of this is a case of right or wrong...I have a friend who hates my "cold coffee"...he will only drink coffee which is "scalding hot". Yep hes the guy who asks the barista if he has a microwave oven handy, I had a laugh

    But I agree that if he likes it that way then good for him!
    Mind you if you are drinking it that hot then you run into issues of throat cancer, the hotter you have it the higher the rates.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 0A0D03030C150D100801600 link=1259145482/1#1 date=1259146289
    A great coffee then Ill not have any sugar - theres no need the flavour is good

    A not so great coffee and Ill throw 1/2 a sugar in to ease the pain

    A terrible coffee and Ill throw at least 1 sugar in to keep it down
    So... If a sugar makes a bad coffee drinkable and a not so great coffee good, wouldnt it make a great coffee even better?

    :-/

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 49474A455244452B0 link=1259145482/25#25 date=1259220830
    Quote Originally Posted by 21242B2B3C2D450 link=1259145482/22#22 date=1259205497
    Yes, I dont think any of this is a case of right or wrong...I have a friend who hates my "cold coffee"...he will only drink coffee which is "scalding hot". Yep hes the guy who asks the barista if he has a microwave oven handy, I had a laugh

    But I agree that if he likes it that way then good for him!
    Mind you if you are drinking it that hot then you run into issues of throat cancer, the hotter you have it the higher the rates.
    He drinks it with one of his 50 per day cigarettes :P

  29. #29
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    I agree entirely with Randy Gs comment

    With steamed milk being sweet in itself and a well executed shot of espresso (you know, the ones we make) not being bitter or sour I find sugar makes a milk drink too sweet, YMMV

    I used to drink instant with sugar then instant without sugar and espresso and espresso based drinks without sugar. I find coffee of any sort with sugar is a completely different drink.

  30. #30
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 3234232832352D2F460 link=1259145482/28#28 date=1259226868
    I agree entirely with Randy Gs comment

    With steamed milk being sweet in itself and a well executed shot of espresso (you know, the ones we make) not being bitter or sour I find sugar makes a milk drink too sweet, YMMV

    I used to drink instant with sugar then instant without sugar and espresso and espresso based drinks without sugar. I find coffee of any sort with sugar is a completely different drink.
    Yep, and I find coffee without sugar a completely different drink.
    For goodness sake, why is it so difficult for people to understand, some of us like sugar with our coffee, unlike the sugarless brigade were not trying to convert you, just accept the fact, some use sugar and some dont, you can argue the point all you want, we aint gonna change you and you aint gonna change us. ::)

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    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Personally I cannot stand cane sugar in coffee. To the point that during a stage where I needed to use soy milk in my milky coffees, I had to always ask cafes which soy they used and keep moving on until I found one that used soy without cane sugar.

    As per comments above, I have always understood there is also people who cannot stand not having cane sugar in their coffee.

    As for the phenomenon of piling sugar into a bad coffee to make it better, Id rather cut my losses and chuck it.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 78444D5540210 link=1259145482/13#13 date=1259194256
    Danny Luca and Bass, the assumption you are making is that people who add sugar or milk

    A.... Are using poor quality beans.

    B.... Dont know how to pull a decent shot

    C....Dont appreciate quality coffee and would not know a good shot from a bulls roar.

    You dont allow for or fail to appreciate the fact that palates vary,

    ...

    Guess what Im saying is, crusade all you want, in the end people will drink their coffee exactly the way they want to. ;)
    No, actually the reason why I used the expressions "I suspect", "a lot of people" and "many people" was precisely to allow for the different personal tastes that people have. I prefaced my final sentence with an acknowledgement that "different people will have different sensitivities to bitterness and sweetness and will want to treat it differently" and in any case, my final sentence wasnt a universal statement of fact; it was clearly expressed as a suspicion that I think applies to many (but not all) people and it was not a value judgment. So I dont see how you can seriously state that I "dont allow for or fail to appreciate the fact that palates vary".

    In response to your three numbered points above, your allegation that I assume that people who add milk and sugar "Dont appreciate quality coffee and would not know a good shot from a bulls roar" is inconsistent with my reference to a "coffee journey", which implies appreciation and exploration. Your statement that I assume that people who add milk and sugar are using poor quality beans and/or pulling shots badly isnt a far fetched inference from what I wrote, but it could only apply to the "most" or "lots" of people to whom I referred. I think that if you look at all of the coffee extracted as espresso in Australia, its a fair assumption that "most" or "lots" could be made sweeter and less bitter.

    After all that, I think that its pretty far fetched to call what I wrote "crusading" ... particularly when it was posted on a site called CoffeeSNOBS!

    In the context of this discussion, Im saying that I think that people should be aware that coffee of different quality exists and I suggest (but do not demand or insist) that people that feel that bitterness and a lack of sweetness are the dominant characteristics of coffee will be interested in trying different coffees in the hope of discovering something better. This is the case regardless of how people want to consume it (which is, of course, up to them).

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    I always drank my coffee with sugar until I got my own espresso machine. I was continuing to put sugar into the coffee for a while but found myself gradually tapering off as it somehow seemed to be masking the true flavour of the coffee. One day I just stopped the sugar and now I never use sugar in the coffee I make at home. At cafes I try the coffee first and decide whether it needs sugar and how much. I will use sugar if it is too bitter or too sour. If I have a milk based coffee I will usually put some sugar in as for me, the milk turns it into a totally different type of drink. I dont mind if my guests put sugar in my home produced milk-based coffees as long as they really enjoy it. Having said that, I dont make coffee at home for people who drink huge takeaway cups of McDonalds coffee - they get instant.

  34. #34
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 4F727E76641D0 link=1259145482/32#32 date=1259238152
    I always drank my coffee with sugar until I got my own espresso machine.
    Same here.

  35. #35
    Senior Member simonsk8r's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Actually I was just trying to be funny....I usually have a good laugh with my guests about this ...I dont take my latte art that seriously Wink
    haha... yeah dw i dont actually have an emotional reaction to people doing it, am just shocked that people would destroy it and not gratefully and delicately take it apart piece by piece, and observe its delicate, lovely, beautiful smooth texture... XD

    ...well actually I thought this forum was for people who have a life and would also like to have interesting discussions about coffee Smiley
    :) Yes, were on this forum to discuss this passion of ours, it is a part of our life :)

    So... If a sugar makes a bad coffee drinkable and a not so great coffee good, wouldnt it make a great coffee even better?

    Undecided
    Hmm, i think sugar masks coffee into tasting sweeter, and covers up the essence of the coffee. Once again, NOTHING wrong with that at all, to each their own. It doesnt make it an evil drink.. it is simply like trentski said, it is a completely different drink in a way.

    In the context of this discussion, Im saying that I think that people should be aware that coffee of different quality exists and I suggest (but do not demand or insist) that people that feel that bitterness and a lack of sweetness are the dominant characteristics of coffee will be interested in trying different coffees in the hope of discovering something better. This is the case regardless of how people want to consume it (which is, of course, up to them).
    Totally 100% agree. Im certainly not saying that anyone is wrong. But i would like to present and explore the facts. Were discussing quality coffee, and all facets of quality coffee. We can all run our lives as we want, and arent arguing that we SHOULD be drinking something in a certain way.
    Some may say that adding milk to coffee makes it a completely different drink. There are a certain amount of drinks that can be called a "coffee", would one then say that ANY drink with a shot of espresso or even a trace of coffee is called a "coffee"? hmmm...

    I guess in terms of true coffee exploration and insight would it be safe to say that ONLY short black and ristretto exploration is needed? i wouldnt say it is... but it really gets down to pure coffee in its essence... I can certainly taste when different coffee beans are being used when drinking milk-based espresso (hot not cold drinks at this point...).. i guess that leads to the question of what is "coffee"... another topic.. :)

  36. #36
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

    SWEET??

    Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?

  37. #37
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Sweet like adding sugar.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2F342F2E400 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
    SWEET??

    Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?
    Excellent question Oton.... 8-)

    Now, for the answers... ;D

    Mal.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    This is an interesting thread aint it? sugar and coffee almost like discussing politics and religion, certainly gets people fired up. :D

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 607B60610F0 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
    I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

    SWEET??

    Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?
    I was thinking about how to answer and found it was not easy to put into words. Like many I used to drink coffee with sugar, which from my point of view was not in search of a sweet beverage such as peach juice but rather to deal with the otherwise bitter taste. I am sure there are various reasons why people add sugar and also different perceptions of sweetness. I have certainly found that well steamed milk is actually sweet ...ie it is as if there is a spoon of sugar in my coffee.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 776C7776180 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
    I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

    SWEET??

    Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?
    Great question and, perhaps unusually, one that is capable of a straight answer. The minimum cutoff for sweetness in the SCAA grading system is equivalent to the sweetness in a solution of about 10 grams per litre. Coffee that is less sweet than this when cupped is unlikely to meet the SCAA cutoff for specialty coffee. Thats off the top of my head, so Ill have to check the figure, but its a good strength to taste to give you a frame of reference.

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 49524948260 link=1259145482/35#35 date=1259239324
    I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

    SWEET??

    Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?

    I think our western palates with over-sugared drinks, sweets, chocolate, cakes, even burger buns has shifted our consideration of what is sweet.

    I remember taking my 1 year old daughter to America a few years back, every baby cereal we tried was extremely, over the top sweet compared to what we were used to back in Australia (ok, so I grew up on weetbix, but you get my point, right?). If Americans were to try our baby cereals. Even the sugared ones, Im sure theyd proclaim them as bland, simply because their palates in general are used to even sweeter things than an Australian palate.

    Theres varying scales of sweetness. Coffee can be sweet without sugar, but not what most people would consider sweet. Simply because all their other foods have sweetner added.

    Milk, when properly steamed adds sweetness. The Lactose in milk is a sugar, and when warmed to 65 degrees, is more soluble, giving even more sweetness to a cup of coffee. Nothing wrong with someone putting sugar in to their coffee, but most people do it by default, without ever having been served a well made coffee and trying it first.

  43. #43
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    The use of sugar in my case could well be that my passion for coffee was ignited over 40 years ago by a Lebanese family serving me, what else, Lebanese coffee with cardamon, needless to say loaded with sugar, I drank Lebanese/Turkish/Greek coffee at home for quite a few years, then I discovered espresso, my sugar use dropped off dramatically but desire for a small amount of sugar remains to this day. ;)

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Interesting side note to this discussion on sugar. If youre in Melbourne, go check out Market Lane in Prahran Markets. Theyve got single origin unrefined sugar from Costa Rica on the tables.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 292B272F2F21263B480 link=1259145482/43#43 date=1259270283
    Interesting side note to this discussion on sugar. If youre in Melbourne, go check out Market Lane in Prahran Markets. Theyve got single origin unrefined sugar from Costa Rica on the tables.
    SHG or not?

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Quote Originally Posted by 61636F6767696E73000 link=1259145482/43#43 date=1259270283
    Interesting side note to this discussion on sugar. If youre in Melbourne, go check out Market Lane in Prahran Markets. Theyve got single origin unrefined sugar from Costa Rica on the tables.
    Prior to going sugarless I made a transition from white sugar to brown and found it had a a nicer sweet taste.

  47. #47
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    I started into the coffee thing 10 months ago... And still do not understand what people means with "a well preparated coffee is sweet"

    SWEET??

    Sweet like what? Like a peach juice? Like a coke? Like a chocolate beverage? or is """sweet""" because is not bitter?
    If you drink a well-made coffee, you will taste a certain sweetness to it, and it is glorious. Would one define the sweetness as the acidity (although you can only really use the terms acidity, body and balance for straight espresso..?). The sweetness may even be coming from the steamed milk as opposed to coming from the espresso... let us disregard that last statement then! ::)

    This is an interesting thread aint it? sugar and coffee almost like discussing politics and religion, certainly gets people fired up. Cheesy
    haha i know ay!! It is an interesting topic, and one that i feel needs discussing ;)

    The minimum cutoff for sweetness in the SCAA grading system is equivalent to the sweetness in a solution of about 10 grams per litre. Coffee that is less sweet than this when cupped is unlikely to meet the SCAA cutoff for specialty coffee. Thats off the top of my head, so Ill have to check the figure, but its a good strength to taste to give you a frame of reference.
    So if a coffee prepared in a comp with a sweetness less than 10grams per litre, are points taken off for that, or is it just thrown out? interesting...

    I think our western palates with over-sugared drinks, sweets, chocolate, cakes, even burger buns has shifted our consideration of what is sweet.
    YES! totally agree, and i think this is a major reason why sugar is generally added, to appeal to that psychological need we have created over time to appeal to the sensationalist aspect of consuming beverages and foods. Not a bad thing as such.. but that consumerist hedonism in my opinion has gotten out of control in many respects. I am not referring to the adding of sugar into coffee, but overall the general hedonism mindset craves for sweeter and sweeter...

    Nothing wrong with someone putting sugar in to their coffee, but most people do it by default, without ever having been served a well made coffee and trying it first.
    Couldnt agree more... and the best way to be served this well-made coffee... to seek out cafe after cafe for a skilled barista who knows his stuff? Or to improve our own skills, knowledge and insight and application into perfecting the coffee?? I would argue both, but improving ones own skills IMHO allows for a greater appreciation overall, and one can explore more in terms of what is well-made and can evaluate each drink after having seen EXACTLY how it was made...
    Great discussion peoples.... :)

  48. #48
    Senior Member Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    The Art of Tasting whether it be wine or coffee, is influenced by the state of the Tasters palate. I have been a wine snob for 40 years and often find I cannot reconcile what I am tasting with the makers /critics description. Same with coffee. I struggle with the sweet description as I dont get the sweet taste from coffees that others identify in this way - mellow, intense, not bitter/sour maybe, but not sweet. I do think that some formal training is probably an advantage in relation to tasting as the palate can be educated just like other senses.

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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Cant remember the last time I had sugar as I roast at home and have silvia and rocky to keep me company, only had it at first when I started getting into espresso shots and SO to get me used to the flavours

  50. #50
    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar in coffee!

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Okay, my turn to weigh into the conversation...

    I drink coffee with two sugars...yes, TWO! * [smiley=evil.gif] *Unless its a small cup, anyway.

    I have an HX machine, a M4 Grinder, a Gene Cafe and only roast great coffees from Bean Bay - currently cupping a bean that won a CoE award (Herbie) or came second, or something. * Okay, so Im not positive that my coffee tastes great to anyone but me, Pete and any visitors that come over, they are the best darn coffees that Ive ever tasted!

    So, overall Id say Im drinking quality coffee. *But I still add sugar. *I have a sweet tooth - always have done.

    Have tried, many times, to drink coffee without sugar from some of what I consider the best and only made with freshly roasted beans (Cuppacoffee, Real Coffee, Sprockets, etc) and, whilst I appreciate the coffee without sugar, I dont fully enjoy it - it just leaves a bitter taste on my tongue and I feel as though I have to wash my mouth out...not with soap (back away, Mum!!! ;) )

    Whereas, give me a latte with sugar - even if its only one - and I enjoy it.

    There is a difference to me between appreciating and enjoying. *I possibly could be a cupper because I can taste those complexities and differentiate, but I would be doing it not for the enjoyment of just drinking the coffee but appreciating it and judging it.

    Yes, I could appreciate coffee until the cows came home but, in the end, drinking coffee - for me, anyway - is about the enjoyment of it. *And If Im enjoying it, then I am appreciating the fact that it tastes great.

    So please dont take offence if I get together with you at a coffee meet and add sugar to my coffee - Im not commenting on your ability but satisfying my taste buds and truly enjoying your coffee. *If you want me to judge it, tell me so, but follow it up with something I truly enjoy afterwards! * *:D

    Likewise, full cream milk and (referring to another thread), butter for me all the way!

    Lifes too short to drink a coffee you dont fully enjoy!

    Cheers
    (Sugared) Coffee2Di4!

    :-*



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