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Thread: Sugar, again.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Sugar, again.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Had an interesting experience last weekend, guests around for dinner and as a light desert I made a lemon gelati/sorbet, had made it in the past and it was quite successful, this time I was a little heavy handed with the lemon juice.
    The desert was duly served and everyone enjoyed it, some even backed up for seconds, except me, I found it mouth puckeringly sour, to the point I could not even finish the serve.
    This got me thinking about sensitivity to sour tastes and my preference for a small amount of sugar in my coffee, most of our guests finished the evening with coffee without sugar (obviously did not need it).
    So perhaps we people who use sugar have palates that are more sensitive to sour/bitter tastes than average, I dislike tart apples, my wife enjoys them, pineapple must be ripe and sugary for me to enjoy it, my wife has no problem with them on the tart side.
    Any way did a search and came up with this link http://www.britannica.com/bps/additi...e-in-the-Genes which suggests genes may be responsible for sour taste perception, sounds reasonable to me and may well explain a lot.
    Any thoughts on the subject?

    Cheers,

    Jon. :)

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar, again.

    So next time I look at a tart I can tell my wife I cant help it, its genetic?

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 5A667B606A6B7C69616A0E0 link=1262784341/1#1 date=1262823531
    So next time I look at a tart I can tell my wife I cant help it, its genetic?
    what sort of tart? :o

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F435E454F4E594C444F2B0 link=1262784341/1#1 date=1262823531
    So next time I look at a tart I can tell my wife I cant help it, its genetic?
    That too. ;D

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    Gra
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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 536F667E6B0A0 link=1262784341/0#0 date=1262784341
    I dislike tart apples, my wife enjoys them, pineapple must be ripe and sugary for me to enjoy it, my wife has no problem with them on the tart side.
    Could be on to some thing there Jon the same in our house hold, I like a little sugar and am not fond of tartie things where as my wife eats the lemon after we have had sea food :o.
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E627F646E6F786D656E0A0 link=1262784341/1#1 date=1262823531
    So next time I look at a tart I can tell my wife I cant help it, its genetic? *
    As for TGs comment Good Luck with that ;D ;D

    Cheers Gra.

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 665A534B5E3F0 link=1262784341/0#0 date=1262784341
    So perhaps we people who use sugar have palates that are more sensitive to sour/bitter tastes than average
    while I certainly wont deny that some people like yourself will always prefer sugar - maybe even for the reason youve suggested, for some percentage of those people (based on my experience and assuming Im not alone) that preference is based on a familiar taste, and learning to prefer it without sugar can result in increased enjoyment from coffee.
    back in the days of instant coffee, I always drank it with 2 sugars. tried it with 1 and didnt like it at all. one day I decided to force myself to drink it without sugar for a couple of weeks. never really liked the instant without sugar, but I could never drink it with 2 sugars again after that - way too sweet - but from then on 1 sugar was nice (as far as instant can ever be nice).

    Then I always made my espresso based drinks with 1 sugar and didnt like it without. again one day I forced myself to go without sugar for a couple of weeks and now I no longer like the taste of sugar in coffee. Ill still have a teaspoon if at someone elses place and Im offered an instant coffee, or if a cafe serves up a particularly bad coffee, but otherwise its no sugar any more and I feel that my appreciation for the taste of coffee improved as a result - the sugar seemed to be overpowering some of the flavours that I now love in a good espresso.

    if you like having sugar then dont let me stop you, but if youre concerned about your sugar intake, would like to stop it, but dont enjoy the taste without it, MAYBE like me you could learn to enjoy it more without sugar than you currently do with sugar.

    another point I found interesting... my old boss bought a Nespresso machine for the office (ok it was better than instant) and asked us to rate the different flavour pods it came with so he could choose which ones to order in the next batch. the sugar-adders consistently preferred different pods to the non-sugar-adders. the number 1 choice with sugar was rated as pretty average without sugar.
    my second crack worth..

    Geoff

  7. #7
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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D41415E4B5C18177D2E0 link=1262784341/5#5 date=1262833303
    Quote Originally Posted by 665A534B5E3F0 link=1262784341/0#0 date=1262784341
    So perhaps we people who use sugar have palates that are more sensitive to sour/bitter tastes than average
    while I certainly wont deny that some people like yourself will always prefer sugar - maybe even for the reason youve suggested, for some percentage of those people (based on my experience and assuming Im not alone) that preference is based on a familiar taste, and learning to prefer it without sugar can result in increased enjoyment from coffee.
    back in the days of instant coffee, I always drank it with 2 sugars. *tried it with 1 and didnt like it at all. *one day I decided to force myself to drink it without sugar for a couple of weeks. *never really liked the instant without sugar, but I could never drink it with 2 sugars again after that - way too sweet - but from then on 1 sugar was nice (as far as instant can ever be nice).

    Then I always made my espresso based drinks with 1 sugar and didnt like it without. *again one day I forced myself to go without sugar for a couple of weeks and now I no longer like the taste of sugar in coffee. *Ill still have a teaspoon if at someone elses place and Im offered an instant coffee, or if a cafe serves up a particularly bad coffee, but otherwise its no sugar any more and I feel that my appreciation for the taste of coffee improved as a result - the sugar seemed to be overpowering some of the flavours that I now love in a good espresso.

    if you like having sugar then dont let me stop you, but if youre concerned about your sugar intake, would like to stop it, but dont enjoy the taste without it, MAYBE like me you could learn to enjoy it more without sugar than you currently do with sugar.

    another point I found interesting... my old boss bought a Nespresso machine for the office (ok it was better than instant) and asked us to rate the different flavour pods it came with so he could choose which ones to order in the next batch. *the sugar-adders consistently preferred different pods to the non-sugar-adders. *the number 1 choice with sugar was rated as pretty average without sugar.
    my second crack worth..

    Geoff
    What Im talking about Geoff is not so much making something unpalatable acceptable by adding sugar (like medicine or instant coffee) but genetically based reasons for taste preferences.
    Did you have a look at the link?

    Cheers,

    Jon. :)

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A565F4752330 link=1262784341/6#6 date=1262839984
    What Im talking about Geoff is not so much making something unpalatable acceptable by adding sugar (like medicine or instant coffee) but genetically based reasons for taste preferences.
    Did you have a look at the link?
    yes I understand that and your experience and linked article raise an interesting idea on the sugar preferences of SOME people... my point was really that a percentage of your "we people who use sugar" have that preference due to not having had the inclination to develop a taste for coffee without sugar. theres nothing genetic about that.
    I consider that to be a bit like wine. I know people who only drink sweet whites, because they were never interested in developing a taste for dry wines. obviously thats fine as nobodys under any obligation to learn to like something they currently dislike, and theres no right or wrong in taste preferences... except maybe for the bloke who told me recently that he prefers instant coffee to cafe coffee :o now thats definitely a wrong preference ;D I just told him he needs to try better cafes.

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4864647B6E793D32580B0 link=1262784341/7#7 date=1262849797
    have that preference due to not having had the inclination to develop a taste for coffee without sugar
    In my 50 plus years of drinking coffee Ive tried many times (for various reasons) to stop using sugar, simply doesnt suit my palate, I dont need to justify my use of the stuff, I prefer it, be it genetic or for some other obscure reason, black with one please ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by 4864647B6E793D32580B0 link=1262784341/7#7 date=1262849797
    I consider that to be a bit like wine.I know people who only drink sweet whites
    Of course that opens a whole new can of worms, I consider myself a bit of a wine snob, Cant handle sweet whites and have a preference for dry reds, and no, before some smart Alec asks I dont add sugar to my wine. ;D

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1E222B3326470 link=1262784341/8#8 date=1262851726
    In my 50 plus years of drinking coffee Ive tried many times (for various reasons) to stop using sugar, simply doesnt suit my palate, I dont need to justify my use of the stuff, I prefer it, be it genetic or for some other obscure reason, black with one please
    yeah I possibly didnt word my comment very well - I was referring there only to people who, unlike yourself, might begin to prefer coffee without sugar (as I did) if they felt so inclined.

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    As a younger bloke growing up the standard coffee (instant) was white with two. This never changed, be it I liked it that way or just didnt happen to try it until a few years ago.
    When I first started to appreciate coffee for the actual flavour instead of just the caffeine I tried to limit the amount of sugar to try and identify the different subtelties that an S.O can produce.
    I definitely have a sweet tooth, however nowadays I prefer my coffee without any sugar, so I would have to probably fit within your example Cooper69S.

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    I briefly read the link and I would have to say that I agree with OP. I think you either are or are not a sour or savoury type person or you are a sweet tooth. it is interesting that the study was performed on twins. I have 2 year old twins and one is definately a sweet tooth while the other is definately not. One likes fruity creamy yoghurt whereas the other prefers plain natural yoghurt and would eat a lemon over an orange any day.

    I also think though that you can train your tastebuds in relation to the addition of sugar. I too used to like a coffee with 2 sugars, i dropped it back to one until I got used to it and now I much prefer no sugar. I also used to love cocopops but now it is just waaaay to sweet to eat.

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 766E76296F73697E7E1B0 link=1262784341/11#11 date=1262901777
    I also think though that you can train your tastebuds
    But why would you want to if you enjoy it? if there are no pressing health reasons i.e. diabetes, obesity etc.
    For some reason those who choose not to use sugar (take the high moral ground) and feel their mission in life is to wean we less informed mortals from the evil substance ;D
    My contention is (Does good coffee need sugar? - Yes if you want a small amount to help draw out natural flavours, - no, if you are just using it to mask terrible coffee.) a quote taken from Star Gardentown Cafe.
    Certainly is an interesting and controversial subject. :D

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E424B5346270 link=1262784341/12#12 date=1262904317
    But why would you want to if you enjoy it? if there are no pressing health reasons i.e. diabetes, obesity etc.
    For some reason those who choose not to use sugar (take the high moral ground) and feel their mission in life is to wean we less informed mortals from the evil substance
    why would you want to? well as I said earlier, not all sugar-adding people are like yourself having tried and failed to really enjoy coffee without sugar.
    so its nothing to do with moral high-ground... just encouraging people to try things that they might like if they give it a go...

    some of us will enjoy coffee without sugar after taking the effort to develop the taste. * for those of us in that category, I believe its worth the effort because for us, our enjoyment of coffee increases once we wean ourselves off the sugar...
    I think it comes down to whether or not a person is making an informed decision based on having properly evaluated both choices.
    Its a bit like steak preferences. *some people order steak cooked well-done based on being repulsed by the idea of eating rare steak. *I suggest that theyre making an uninformed choice. *that doesnt mean that they are obliged to try rare steak, but I guarantee that some (but certainly not all) of those people would enjoy their steak more if they overcame their aversion to it and tried a quality cut of steak cooked rare or medium-rare (or maybe start with medium). *It took about 12 years, but my wife eventually came to realise that she likes steak better when cooked medium rather than well-done. *yes she enjoyed well-done steak and for many years saw no reason to change. *after deciding to give medium a go, she realised she liked it more...
    sort of the same with sugar in coffee. *there is a percentage of people who add sugar to coffee, who would enjoy it more if they learnt not to... for everyone else though, maybe your genetic suggestion is the reason for their preference.

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 072B2B342136727D17440 link=1262784341/13#13 date=1262913621
    maybe your genetic suggestion is the reason for their preference.
    The theory works for me at the moment. ;)

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Just as another data point:

    I prefer bone dry wines to sweeter wines, go for bitter beers over sweet ones and find soft drink undrinkably sweet.

    Yet I always have half to 1 tsp of sugar in my Coffee.

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Quote Originally Posted by 574F57084E52485F5F3A0 link=1262784341/11#11 date=1262901777
    I also used to love cocopops but now it is just waaaay to sweet to eat. *
    Anyone tried cocopops in their espresso?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7955554A5F480C03693A0 link=1262784341/7#7 date=1262849797
    theres no right or wrong in taste preferences... except maybe for the bloke who told me recently that he prefers instant coffee to cafe coffeenow thats definitely a wrong preferenceI just told him he needs to try better cafes.
    ... or perhaps get a tastebud transplant? (a little known but sometimes necessary medical procedure ;))

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    Re: Sugar, again.

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 34392E26333B5C0 link=1262784341/15#15 date=1262919025
    Just as another data point:

    I prefer bone dry wines to sweeter wines, go for bitter beers over sweet ones and find soft drink undrinkably sweet.

    Yet I always have half to 1 tsp of sugar in my Coffee.
    Good on yer Herzog, I was startin to feel a little lonely. ;)



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