Thankyou for your feedback.
You are weak to convenience.
Every week I hear your complaints about the coffee chains, Woolworths and Coles.
Prices too high, quality too low, service is sh!t.
Yet they are all busy, more of your cash in there till, there share prices are up, the franchises being sold.
Im talking to local guys and gals busting there alls to grow well,buy well, roast well, brew
well and they are stuggling.
Tell your family and friends to walk a little, make an effort and find better coffee.
They are few and inconveniently located.
St Ali-Melbourne, Chic- Brisbane, Single origin-Sydney, Supreme roaster- Gold Coast
In my mind you are more likely to get a better experience from locally owned and operated family
A franchise can be bought by locals but are governed by nationals which equals less for you and more for them.
Sorry to say
You have the convenience disease.
Stick your Starbucks up your Gloria Jeans with a Coffee Club
Hospitality cannot be owned.
Unfortunately, I know just how you feel--(sigh :().
With a little bit of effort good-to-great coffee is available. Most people wont put in that effort, either because they dont care, dont know what good coffee tastes like, or, as you say, they are addicted to convenience first.
Fortunately there is a place for those of us who fall outside those groups, ITS HERE AT COFFEESNOBS! ::)
;D ;D ;DOriginally Posted by 256233322962510 link=1265641390/0#0 date=1265641390
Best headline Ive seen for ages!
10 out of 10
Agreed! Beautiful.Originally Posted by 506C716A606176636B60040 link=1265641390/3#3 date=1265668173
And with the sentiment itself. I still have trouble taking my missus away from the pants place due to convenience. But she is getting there a little at a time. Luckily I have two very fine purveyors of Peruvians, Panamanians, Peabodies, Plateau Growns, Pacifics, Poo Beans and the like within a 15 minute drive from my front door.
Both are generous, welcome me by name, offer free samples of either cup or green bean from time to time as may happen, and are more than happy to share knowledge and time when I visit. AND the atmosphere when enjoying a beverage here simply cannot be beat.
And did I mention fresh roasted beans in my cup? The other mobs dont need or deserve my dollars......let em pander to those who deserve them.
The scary thing is that very few of those who flock to places like Gloria Jeans actually complain.
Even scarier, they pay a 30-40% premium for the privilege of terrible coffee.
Sadly, so many that frequent these chain stores actually develop such a taste for the sickly sweet syrups that mask the terrible beans (and extraction) that they truly believe thats how coffee is meant to be served.
At the end of the day though, people can spend their money on whatever they like and if Gloria Jeans floats their boat, good luck to them.
People go to the likes of starbucks / gloria jeans not just for the sugary drinks but also because they believe these stores will consistently serve the same product, just like macdonalds. If they go to a new independant theyve never heard of, the coffee could be awesome but it could also be terrible. There are plenty of places you can get bad coffee, even if they use good locally roasted fresh beans.
Since there is a relatively small number of excellent independents in brisbane, i believe most people dont have the know-how, the time or the inclination to find the good ones.
The average joe just doesnt care that much about coffee to go to all that effort! This is the reason i believe the likes of gloria jeans do so well, not to mention good marketing, extremely high amount of foot traffic etc.
Open a veneziano next door to a gloria jeans and im sure youd soon see people flocking to the veneziano. People have an innate sense when it comes to authenticity.
i am gonna risk a flaming here....
if there is nothing else i would rather risk a GJ coffee than a donut king / sandwhich bar / sushi cupcake house / etc, coffee
I was watching a GJ barista on the weekend while my little one was looking at a pet store in Chatswood westfield and they were going about it in a very well trained way. dosing, tapping, tamping, even had shot timers and manual pours happening. Probably one of few but they were trying.
i didnt get one but........ ;D
As a side note I think Insturator facilities for michels is now roasting for Donut King?Originally Posted by 232F262B2B224E0 link=1265641390/7#7 date=1265795942
Thanks for the mention Via. Yes I know we are out of the way at Yatala (between Brisbane and Gold Coast) but we happily welcome any snob with open arms that happens to wonder in from yonder region!
Come on !!!! Their Chocolate Chip or Melting Moment biscuits are worth walking into the store if nothing else.......coffee is gunk and mud but the above biscuits are awesome (wife holding a gun to my head) !!
Dutchie... if she is really holding you ransom cause of that go to Mylk in Frankston... they have fraus hot chocolate which should help placate her seeing your on the Penisula.
Ill counter that one :)Originally Posted by 7A767F72727B170 link=1265641390/7#7 date=1265795942
A work colleague returned from his lunchbreak the other day, with a takeaway coffee from Gloria Jeans.
It was the size of a small milkshake, and had chocolate/licorice bullets in it.
Thats just scary. Why dont they just call themselves a milkbar and drop the whole coffee pretence :)
Can confirm that mate. I know a bloke who runs a Donut King who was telling me that the other day. I cant recall, he said there was a third chain whos beans are roasted same place as well.Originally Posted by 0838232D223E2F3819232E2F4A0 link=1265641390/8#8 date=1265796226
True. *You must have experienced that look from a BS (Before Snobs)Originally Posted by 2B302F38356168590 link=1265641390/6#6 date=1265786456
Is this coffee? Wow, I never liked coffee before.
The Secret Recipe is ......Originally Posted by 1D2C2D3A31303C590 link=1265641390/9#9 date=1265796613
Sugar Salt and Fat *YUM
I Agree. GJ offer half good training and kids need a job.Originally Posted by 3438313C3C35590 link=1265641390/7#7 date=1265795942
Try and spend with a local and help create a job.
"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea".
"But if this is tea, please bring me some coffee".
Ive noticed guys at DK now wear a black shirt with "barista" on it, as opposed to the rest of the staff who wear pink shirts.Originally Posted by 46766D636C706176576D6061040 link=1265641390/8#8 date=1265796226
I once tried a DK coffee out of desperation.
It was what could best be described as soapy water with ground coffee throughout.
One sip and i realised that i can never again be that desperate.
I had dk recently (it was possible to watch Jet on the play equip whilst in line and then getting served - one of those in the shopping centre playgrounds) and the girl did have a go at a group head jiggle clean before making my coffee, and even poured some flowery looking art.
Somehow still got some stray grinds and it was too hot, but not to the point of scalding the milk. Lots of older shoppers though, so they probably get a billion complaints if it isnt hot enough. And I did ask for an extra shot - I think the standard would have been rather weak cause the two shot still tasted a bit lame.
My expectation: 2/10
My final rating: 6/10
Not a choice I would have made if there was any other option in that area, but surprisingly ok.
The overheating of milk is a chronic problem, and not just in these chain stores.Originally Posted by 262E27222822243E384B0 link=1265641390/15#15 date=1265841038
In the last month ive been to probably a dozen highly rated Melbourne coffee houses and the vast majority still overheat their milk.
My favourite place stops their milk at 65 degrees consistently and even go so far as to have a sign up saying as much simply because so many people are used to almost boiling hot lattes.
This place also have an incredibly quick and efficient service team which is a necessity when you keep your milk to only 65 degrees.
I have to admit i use to go to Starbucks before. But after joining this website i have developed a big dislike for it. I guess i have discovered my coffee preference after having my own setup at home at my disposal.
Now if a friend asks me to meet up at Starbucks i try to convince them to try another place. ;D ;)
just had a walk near the beach, and was so sad to see so many those people indulging in horrible coffee in dome and gloria jeans! both of them were next to each other, and both of them were packed!
Some research done a couple of years ago showed that the best place for an independent coffee shop to set up was as close as possible to a StarChar outlet as possible. The closer the independent was to a StarChar the more business they did. :)
Java "Things that make you go Hhhhmmmm....." phile
I actually work at Gloria Jeans, and i do agree that the coffee is not as good as some youd find at many cafes, but i will say that its good. I guess the aim is to produce a consistently good product, not quite reaching superb... But my aim is to make SUPERB coffees, not mediocre, so im trying with every coffee to get it to that level (im one of the baristas there who makes sure great coffees go out, if the extraction rate/time isnt right, i dump it and start again!).
I know the beans arent as freshly roasted as many cafes have them (which i should maybe petition for... :P), but as i once heard someone say, The best-trained and most talented baristas can make great coffees out of crap resources. (well they can certainly work with what they have and improve them)
I would say the same about many bistros in which many arent properly trained in barista work and dont use freshly roasted beans.. At GJ were at least trained properly as baristas.
And yes, i wouldnt even call all the syrup-added drinks coffees, they are flavoured beverages which happen to have coffee in them hehe. But then would i still call the drinks with milk added to them, coffees? hmmm :)
:D Yay Im not the only one! If you get that petition started be sure to send it my way!Originally Posted by 7A606466677A62317B090 link=1265641390/20#20 date=1266283841
I wouldnt believe that person at all.Originally Posted by 2832363435283063295B0 link=1265641390/20#20 date=1266283841
I have a friend who trained at the Cordon Bleu in Paris and she was amazed at the high quality of the ingredients that they insisted was essential for good cooking.
I know that a chocolate cake out of the African cocoa sold here bears no resemblance to the same cake out of Cadburys cocoa.
Sorry, but ive probably had 5-6 straight lattes at different GJs stores over the year and, without fail, every one of them was bitter, watery and just plain dreadful.Originally Posted by 4D575351504D55064C3E0 link=1265641390/20#20 date=1266283841
Im sure if youre lucky enough to strike a passionate, talented staff member you could get a decent enough latte, but generally GJs serve up grossly substandard coffee.
BTW One of the lattes i spoke of earlier actually came from the GJs in Pako St.
I hope you dont work at that one. *;D
That would make you what is known as a, glutton for punishment. ;DOriginally Posted by 4C4C4C060 link=1265641390/23#23 date=1266364300
Yeah, i shouldve stated this differently, i meant that yeah you need great resources, but with an average-quality product, the most skilled baristas can improve it. Not saying they can make it perfect, but better than its standard.simonsk8r wrote on Yesterday at 12:30pm:
i once heard someone say, The best-trained and most talented baristas can make great coffees out of crap resources.
I wouldnt believe that person at all.
Sorry to hear. IMHO it depends on the barista, i see so many who dont care to look at the extraction, and will use bad shots and so forth, whereas i make it my job to produce higher-quality shots.Sorry, but ive probably had 5-6 straight lattes at different GJs stores over the year and, without fail, every one of them was bitter, watery and just plain dreadful.
And no i dont work at the Pako St one haha.
But the thing is, the extraction goes perfectly (nice honey-like tigerstriping effect...), the aromas are GORGEOUS, and the shots which i constantly evaluate are beautiful (not that im a pro at cupping)... i havent tried many milk-based hot drinks for GJ, so i will do that and play around with the extraction etc...
Im not sure when the beans are roasted... which is something i REALLY must find out! I do know they are packed in one-way valve bags (and yes, they do have an Expiry Date as opposed to a Roasted On date, which is frowned upon..), and SMELL so very fresh imo....
Ristrom, if youre feeling adventurous enough :D order a ristretto or espresso and see what you think...
HahaOriginally Posted by 6B4A4141465C2F0 link=1265641390/24#24 date=1266366787
In my defence it was only because my better half tended to prefer GJs because as a soy drinker who hates the taste, she liked the syrups as they masked the taste of the soy.
Ive converted her to really good coffee and shes discovered that when a coffee is made well and the soy is treated properly, its not nearly as terrible as it once was.
Having said that, id rather give up coffee for life than drink one soy latte. ;D
A good barista makes a huge difference but if youre working with inferior beans youre still going to struggle to make a quality coffee.Originally Posted by 5C464240415C44175D2F0 link=1265641390/25#25 date=1266366905
Lucky. ;DOriginally Posted by 5C464240415C44175D2F0 link=1265641390/25#25 date=1266366905
Quite seriously, i would be shocked if anyone at our local GJ stores would even know what a ristretto is, let alone be able to make one.Originally Posted by 5C464240415C44175D2F0 link=1265641390/26#26 date=1266367914
A Bravington (who posted earlier in the thread) works at a GJs that i sometimes drive past on my way down to the coast (i think) so perhaps one day i can again try a GJs coffee knowing itll be made by someone who, like you, i and the rest of us here, has a real passion for it.
Its a lottery and you usually dont win at the chains. Sometimes there is a pleasant surprise. I think GJs probably try hard to train their staff.
The only reason I ever use a chain is when I am desperate and feeling lucky. Desperation comes from being in a Shopping Mall, forced to accompany the boss lady.
Things I hate about some of these places...1) overhot coffee 2) served in paper cups 3) the lottery experience.
This takes me to something else..
There are "boards" elsewhere on the CS site for discussing where to find good Coffee in various regions. Most of the information is very dated. I wonder is the 50+ postings affecting this situation.
These boards could be most valuable. I have had some horrible coffee experiences travelling in regional centres west, south west and north west of the Blue Mountains. *:(
I know there is a disclaimer about baristas changing etc., but Id welcome a chance to check CSrs opinions.
Its an interesting observation.Originally Posted by 223933383122340F23500 link=1265641390/28#28 date=1266459099
I can understand why they have the 50 post minimum rule but yes, the boards arent nearly as popular as they could be (or should be).
I find them very valuable and do my best to contribute to the Victorian board.
Part of the lack of use could stem from the fact that we all make good quality coffee at home thus many probably dont frequent cafes less than they otherwise would.
My cafe visits have lessened since making excellent coffee at home but i still endeavour to visit one or two well regarded cafes each weekend and do enjoy sharing my thoughts on the experience so a more active Good Coffee Where? board would be wonderful.
Since I got to make good Coffee at home I reduced cafe visits but it is good to sit in a cafe with a friend and enjoy a well made coffee with the good baristas touch.
You can also try different styles of Coffee and different sources that you cant do so easily at home.
Of course you can sneak some toasted banana bread or some other tasty no-no when the "Boss" isnt *watching. * :P
Now for my thoughts on the worst places for coffee even where there is decent equipment on show.
1) RSL Clubs
2) Hospital coffee shops
On the second group these are often staffed by volunteers so there is no way you can really give the old dears a hard time.
At Nepean Hospital the "girls" call me darling and honey. *I thought it was love but everybody gets the same treatment, I think.
The coffee there was really crook last time I was there killing time. :(
The new place opposite GJs Frankston is booming. Went past the other day and there were 5 people in Glorias and about 20 opposite. I reckon the new GJ franchisee would be grumpy - i think when he bought it there was a hairdresser opposite. Talk about needing a new pair of jeans.Originally Posted by 012A3D2A3B2322272E4B0 link=1265641390/19#19 date=1266147456
Ah ok, i wasnt aware that A Bravington worked at GJ, Im seriously thinking about getting some sort of interest generated about using freshly roasted coffee... Sure it would take some work to properly plan... but well worth it. Am just debating in terms of cost how it would be done... If many extremely popular cafes can do it I dont see why we cant...Originally Posted by 7575753F0 link=1265641390/27#27 date=1266442688
What makes you think its not fresh? Surely the turnover is enormous. So I think the problem is a little more complex than the coffee being stale.Originally Posted by 5F454143425F47145E2C0 link=1265641390/32#32 date=1266559975
I was under the impression that that was the main issue/problem with GJ/Starbucks/Coffee Club etc... unless that was sarcasm there and i completely missed it XDOriginally Posted by 57767D7D7A60130 link=1265641390/33#33 date=1266561959
I think he was serious :-/, i would imagine the stuff you buy(as a customer)off the shelf would be stale, but the coffee ya use to make coffee would/could be fresh(ish) due to the turnover.......he is probably hinting at poor roasting/barista technique? (not you ;))
Den can be a little...... vague ;D(no offence den ;)) (can roast thou :o)
Yes I was.Originally Posted by 0E0A2C3535302F3837590 link=1265641390/35#35 date=1266581279Yeah, sometimes I think other people have an insight into whats going on in my head, kind of like the Vulcan mind-meld. Thanks for reminding me thats not always the case! ;DOriginally Posted by 0E0A2C3535302F3837590 link=1265641390/35#35 date=1266581279
It wasnt intended as sarcasm Simon. I think the coffee that these chains serve is very unlikely to be stale (the bags are a different matter). But if it tastes stale or off in some other way, and presuming the staff are generally well-trained and the equipment set up correctly, then I would think it comes down to the raw product being used and the way its roasted.Originally Posted by 2A303436372A32612B590 link=1265641390/34#34 date=1266580571
Hope that makes sense. If not, we might indeed have to get Spock on the job. ;D
Oh right! ;D I thought the main issue with GJ etc was how freshly roasted the beans were!! My bad... so is it bad roasting technique thats the main issue with the big chain coffee stores, and/or bad quality of beans themselves?? Enlighten me, for I am lost :DOriginally Posted by 0A0E283131342B3C335D0 link=1265641390/35#35 date=1266581279
As far as Im concerned the problem with *most* places that serve coffee--big chain or not--is that the drink is rubbish.
Im not particularly interested in how it got that way, thats up to them, I only want a good coffee to drink.
Learning how to produce a great coffee at home has taught me that if *anything* is not right, it shows in the product. So bean quality, roast, freshness, cleanliness, grind, water temperature, water quality, tamper fit, tamp pressure, barista(?) skill, milk quality, milk temperature, and probably lots more *all matter*.
Any real coffee enthusiast knows that making consistently great coffee is an art involving many variables. Even at home on your own machine most of us produce the occasional inferior cup. I have always assumed that only a small proportion of those who operate commercial Espresso machines are enthusiasts. For the rest its just a job - often a temporary one. The Chain coffee shops do well because most coffee drinkers are not discriminating. I have lots of friends who really dont care about their coffee as long as it is hot, sweet, and served in a bucket. They are usually the same with their food. It is just not important to them. The chains give them what they want - they wouldnt appreciate what CSers drink. If friends insist on dragging me there I have a cake and a milkshake.
Simon, my personal thoughts on GJs is not so much the lack of fresh beans, or how the coffees are made, but it always tastes to me as though the beans are roasted way too much and end up tasting burnt, regardless of extraction, etc. I think it mainly comes down to the fact that they are perhaps roasting to what the Americans drink (CS14 perhaps or City Roast, I think its called?) rather than stopping just on second crack. I will bin a roast if Ive taken it over CS9 or 10 - well, unless it was my Sulawesi or Herbazu! - rather than drink it, and this is the same taste that I get out of a GJ;s coffee. The last one I purchased, when we were newly arrived in Qld early in the new year and were still in a Motel, I threw out after about the first two sips *Ugh*
This is consistent both in NSW and Qld in the GJs Ive gone to over the years (5 or 6 different ones over the years) so, in my mind, it comes down to the beans rather than the people behind the machines. Ive also found that it is only at GJs that I have this experience. When Ive been forced to buy coffees lately at other franchises, its usually be for other aforementioned reasons that I havent enjoyed it ie; lack of training, overheating, bad extraction or, in the case of one franchise that I expressed my disgust at recently and tried to educate, pregrinding all the coffee in the morning and putting it into a container for the coffee I had at 3.00pm...Royal Bean, my @ss!!! ;)
If the roasters at GJs only stopped roasting a couple of minutes before they did, it would make it so much more pleasant to my tastebuds and at least take that out of the equation!
Agreed :)Originally Posted by 08353931235A0 link=1265641390/39#39 date=1266839393
Hmmm ah okay, really appreciate your thoughts on this.. The beans ive noticed are VERY dark and noticeably oily... Is there any way i can change the system? I dont see why not :P. I might look into it... send a few messages to a certain roaster? :). Although it would be a massive overhaul of the beans being sent all over australia... a big change... but i dont see why it cant happen.Originally Posted by 12352331295A0 link=1265641390/40#40 date=1266895552
Was walking past a GJs on the weekend and noticed a sign up about them offering a CoE bean.
After i got over the initial shock, i went inside to investigate and sure enough, they actually do have a decent CoE bean for sale.
For a brief moment i thought GJs might actually be turning over a new leaf.
That was until i actually picked up a bag and saw:
Exp Jan 20 2013
All is well in the world of chain store coffee.
Behind the scenes an effort is being made. Its a matter of getting people high enough in the chain to give a damn to make the rest happen.Originally Posted by 626262280 link=1265641390/42#42 date=1313398399
Have talked to the franchisee of a local GJs a few months back after I noticed that he had some Terranova for sale. The OH will still go there for her milkbar drinks, and I have had the chance to talk coffee with him. He offered me a bag of the tnova to take home and try so as to give him some feedback. Exp date was Feb 2012, the bean was stale and unimpressive. He accepted honest feedback with good grace. He tried to chase up the interest in making available coffees which are fresh and have a roasted on date rather than the expiry. Very little interest was forthcoming.
He also stated that the biggest impact on his business was when Elixir had opened the cafe extension to their roasting business some 18 or so months ago. And they are located some 500m down the road and around the corner from the shopping centre in which he is located. You cant move in there on a Saturday morning, they literally have to move the forklift out of the floor and shift some extra tables in there to cater for the overflow. So there is hope that the great unwashed can and will go out of their way for a fine coffee.
I go to a regular meeting where the hosts generously buy everyone a coffee from the nearby GJs. I always order a Piccolo Latte as I figure the milk (and sugar if needed) improves drinkability. Id have to say that I think the bean is fresh enough, its just not nice bean. I dont like the flavour of the bean at all and it wouldnt be good in a shot.
We need places like Gloria Jeans. There is a Gloria Jeans around the corner from Campos Newtown. It amazes me how many people go there when Campos is just around the corner. Then I think if they all went to Campos as well the cue at Campos would be even longer. So I am happy for them to not know any better. ;)
I will definitely remember these words ("Stick your Starbucks up your Gloria Jeans with a Coffee Club") forever
epic. I had a laugh ;D
Saw this postcard at The Espresso Room last year in London. Made me smile :)
Retail Food Group are the brand managers for the Michels Patisserie, Donut King and bbs Cafe brands, amongst others. I believe all their beans are sourced from the same roaster.Originally Posted by 797570647D716666712422140 link=1265641390/12#12 date=1265803737