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Thread: Help me with my stubborn crème!

  1. #1
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    Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I have just started roasting my own beans (starter pack) with a bread maker and a heat gun reaching second crack in around 12 minutes resulting in a nice looking/tasty roast. The problem I have is the absence of decent crème, unless I tamp the living hell out of the grind causing my machine to struggle. I have had many commercial roasts before, that require minimal tamping to produce a thick rich honey like crème. What am I doing wrong? My burr grinder is at the finest setting.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Some beans create more crema than others. Which one were you roasting?

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    I have roasted the Peru Ceja de Selva Estate, Ethiopian Gambella Naturals and Harrar longberry, and the Brazil pulped naturals. I have even experimented with stopping the roast just prior the second crack with limited success.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    What machine albad?

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 633C243239323E373734343C303F510 link=1272164875/3#3 date=1272166265
    What machine albad?
    ya..

    1: coffee machine = ?

    2: grinder = ?

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    I have a Sunbeam EM6910, which has worked perfectly fine with crema before.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    ...........and a Delonghi burr grinder which has also been successful before.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 414C424144200 link=1272164875/6#6 date=1272166833
    ...........and a Delonghi burr grinder which has also been successful before.
    Thatd be it then ;)

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 49444A494C280 link=1272164875/6#6 date=1272166833
    ...........and a Delonghi burr grinder which has also been successful before.
    Which one ?

    The kg100 is really the bottom of the range.

    With out knowing more...

    I can only suggest it is the way your managing the beans post roast...

    Some blends give little when fresh or STALE...

    Would need to know more as to you roasting process and post roast management of the beans, including storage and how long / old are they at the time of grind and pulling a shot.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Why is that? I have used it many times before on commercially roasted beans with excellent results. Are the home roasted beens more difficult to grind?

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    You can mod the Delonghi http://www.toomuchcoffee.com/index.p...&mid=&ceid=166 but the best modification is a new grinder and give the other one to a Plunger user *;)

    Your Home roasted beans depending on the actual bean may need a finer grind than those you have been getting commercially. At present I am using an Aussie MTE and it needs a much courser grind than the Genovese blend I was running. While a Yirg will be way different again.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    I have been sampling the roasts at different stages and post roast I have been keeping them sealed and refrigerated. I must admit that the Gambella naturals crema improved slightly after a few days.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Refrigerated is EVIL for so many reasons. With your home roasts start trying them at 3-5 days and store them in one way valved bags stored in a dark cool cupboard.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2126222D252F3A2A2D24430 link=1272164875/12#12 date=1272167693
    Refrigerated is EVIL for so many reasons.
    So true... Some may get away with it... But only under extreme conditions.

    If they get any moisture in them... Then NO Crema unless ground really fine... Same treatment for stale beans.

    PS. Crema does not always = Good coffee..

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Does humidity during roasting create problems?

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    What is a good home grinder to buy without spending a fortune?

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Normal a more moist bean I have found needs a courser grind the MTE478 is one of those. Others with more experience than me will know about roasting in high humidity and what it does to moisture loss during the roast. As a general rule 15% of the bean mass is lost during roasting and most of that is moisture.

    Grinder wise at the risk of being really off topic better you research the grinder threads but the hand operated Kyocera at under $100 is great apart fromthat save $400+ it is worth it.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Welcome Albad.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

    Probably the biggest issue with grinders of this ilk, is even when they appear to be working well, they still produce way too high a proportion of "fines" in the overall mix. As the burrs wear (become more blunt), this proportion of fines increases exponentially at which some point, you begin to notice a rapid falling off of espresso brew quality....

    Best thing really, is to replace it with the best quality grinder you can afford (have a read here... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1194680556 ). Good quality grinders will outlast you and probably only require a couple of burr changes in that time. In other words, not only will it pay for itself in quality coffee ad infinitum, it can probably be handed down to your grand-kids when youre through with it...

    Mal.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 010C020104600 link=1272164876/9#9 date=1272167290
    Why is that? *I have used it many times before on commercially roasted beans with excellent results. *Are the home roasted beens more difficult to grind?
    albad,

    1. Clearly if you are able to get crema with commercially roasted beans and you are not with yours, your home roast is the problem, so I dont know why everyone is talking about everything except for your roast. (Presuming that you have adjusted the grind and dose to get a proper espresso flow rate.)

    2. I once had an absurdly light roast (cant remember why) and gave that a shot through espresso to find that it produced pretty much no crema (and, predictably, tasted awful). At an absurdly wild guess - is it possible that what you thought was first was in fact just the first snaps of first and that you have actually only roasted the beans to first? I suppose that moisture loss and bean expansion would give you the answer to that question.

    3. Beanflyings point about the refridgerator sounds like it might be worth investigating.

    4. Welcome to the world of coffee - you can always have a better grinder! If you enjoy your espresso and get a bit of use out of your equipment, personally Id be looking at the Compak K-3 Touch or better as the next step up.

    Cheers,
    Luca

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A67696A6F0B0 link=1272164876/0#0 date=1272164875
    I have just started roasting my own beans (starter pack) with a bread maker and a heat gun reaching second crack in around 12 minutes resulting in a nice looking/tasty roast. *The problem I have is the absence of decent crème, unless I tamp the living hell out of the grind causing my machine to struggle. *I have had many commercial roasts before, that require minimal tamping to produce a thick rich honey like crème. *What am I doing wrong? *My burr grinder is at the finest setting.
    Sounds like a grinder problem. Ive got experience with the Brazillian pulped naturals, Harrar Longberrey and Gambellas. Also using the 6910. Never had any problems with crema. In fact, when fresh, these beans tend to be a bit TOO bubbly.

    Ive also had serious roast consistency issues with the beans above. (technique problem), and even with inconsistent roasts, I still get good loads of creama.

    Just note that crema itself does not indicate if a coffee will taste good. The best shots may not necessarily have the most crema.




  21. #21
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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D202E2D284C0 link=1272164876/0#0 date=1272164875
    I have just started roasting my own beans (starter pack) with a bread maker and a heat gun reaching second crack in around 12 minutes resulting in a nice looking/tasty roast
    I think Luca is pretty close to the mark with his comments to be honest.... 8-)

    Im not casting aspersions on your roasting ability "albad" but perhaps this is where the problem originates, given that you havent been roasting coffee for all that long.

    Rather than kicking off with a Corretto roaster, Id recommend grabbing a Popper from an Op Shop then start roasting with that. Lots of information available here on CS about Popper Roasting and at least this way, any batches that dont work out are quite small and represent less of a loss. Once youve got the basics all sorted out you can then go back to the Corretto using your new found knowledge.... :)

    Mal.

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Quote Originally Posted by 48514745240 link=1272164876/18#18 date=1272204827
    your home roast is the problem
    Yep for sure, 12 mins to sc is very fast for a corretto roast :o, are you getting any tipping or scorching? You may find that the beans are burnt from the inside out......have you munched on one?

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    Re: Help me with my stubborn crème!

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Yeah, I have munched on the beans and surprisingly they tasted great, they come out looking glossy and not too black. Even though there is little crema the coffee tastes better than the shops. I think I need another grinder as the Delonghi has had a hiding for the last 18 months, and to be quite honest the last few professionally roasted beans if had offered less crema than previously (this prompted me to roast my own).
    Thanks to everybody for their ideas.



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