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Thread: Cafetto

  1. #1
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    Cafetto

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    hi guys,

    This is probably a dumb question. I just got some "Cafetto espresso clean". I was wondering if it is safe to soak the group handles and filters in it? will it damage the chrome on the group handle? :-/

    Thanks a lot. :)


  2. #2
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    Re: Cafetto

    No such thing as a dumb question, only dumb people who dont ask questions. It is ok for soaking grouphandles in just dont soak the plastic handles in it as over time they will suffer.

  3. #3
    Wine_of_the_Bean
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    Re: Cafetto

    You can soak the group handles in it, just make sure its rinsed off well before use. Id also try not to have plastic handles in the solution, as damage may result.

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    Re: Cafetto

    I hope you can as I do so :-?

  5. #5
    Caffeine Junky
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    Re: Cafetto

    Cafetto is awesome stuff - created, manufactured & owned right here in Adelaide.

    Perfect for soaking group handles & baskets in. As with others I dont soak the plastic handle although I have no idea if it would damage it or not. I just stand them upright in a jug with dissolved cafetto.

  6. #6
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    Re: Cafetto

    Has anyone else here tried Finish dishwashing powder for soaking parts? If you think about it, the requirements for a dishwashing powder are pretty much the same as for Cafetto and both are unsuitable for aluminium parts....

  7. #7
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    Re: Cafetto

    Finish would probably work, as would any number of other substances. Cafetto is designed for the job and it works I dont think finish would be any cheaper so why not just use the right stuff.

    BTW this has been discussed earlier in heaps of detail if you want to go into the details.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: Cafetto

    The only thing Finish has in common with Cafetto is that it has a similar pH. The chemical content is vastly different. Napisan is closer.

    If you use either Finish or Napisan over Cafetto or Clean Machine, then youre probably also the type of person who might not think there is much of a difference between a blend of metho and boot polish compared to a fine wine.


  9. #9
    A_M
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 14353E3E3923500 link=1273552118/7#7 date=1273564309
    The only thing Finish has in common with Cafetto is that it has a similar pH. *The chemical content is vastly different. *Napisan is closer.

    If you use either Finish or Napisan over Cafetto or Clean Machine, then youre probably also the type of person who might not think there is much of a difference between a blend of metho and boot polish compared to a fine wine.

    giggled like a schoolgirl...... Said so clear but so simple.... And so true.

  10. #10
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A444946514746280 link=1273552118/6#6 date=1273563483
    BTW this has been discussed earlier in heaps of detail if you want to go into the details.
    Really?? A search brings up 5 posts with the words Cafetto and dishwashing (including this one) with only 1 post (by Dennis) going into any detail about what the differences are. The rest are just hand waving warnings

    Im not talking about back flushing, people. Just for soaking.

    Or do people here drink Caffeto?

    And even if the chemical compositions are different, the task requirements are almost identical apart, possibly, from solubility and thorough rinsing (which should be done with any cleaning agent) would take care of residues due to that.

    BTW It is the pH that breaks down the oils when cleaning which is the cause of residue from espresso extraction. The oxygenating component of bleaching agents (as present in Cafetto and Napisan) act to a) sterilise and b) break down certaing colouring agents to hide stains. Neither of these effects should affect the soaking of coffee components (or backwashing but lets not get into that).

  11. #11
    A_M
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F65656A656361040 link=1273552118/9#9 date=1273611646
    Really?? A search brings up 5 posts with the words Cafetto and dishwashing (including this one) with only 1 post (by Dennis) going into any detail about what the differences are. The rest are just hand waving warnings

    Im not talking about back flushing, people. Just for soaking.
    Advances search and be aware that key words are often an issue with speeeling and context etc

    As to soaking.. *I actual use Cafetto to not only flush AND soak but as a cleaner for my oven and for fume extraction fans etc..

    Why... Cause it si cheep and does much better that all the other stuff I have tried.

    Now if ya using Finish to soak something else... Would I drop in a few coffee bits at the same time *- Why not *;D

    Would finish or some other house hold cleaning agent be my first choice... No...


    Oohhh *Whats that my wife has in the cupboard.. *Borax / White Vinegar etc....

    Stop it AM, that is not for cleaning coffee bits nor for drinking; besides the Borax adds a nasty hit to the rollies...

  12. #12
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 43494946494F4D280 link=1273552118/5#5 date=1273562981
    Has anyone else here tried Finish dishwashing powder for soaking parts? If you think about it, the requirements for a dishwashing powder are pretty much the same as for Cafetto and both are unsuitable for aluminium parts....
    Cafetto is designed for it, specifically for coffee, Finish is not.

    If ya trying to save a buck then go for it, no ones gunna stop ya, its your machine and your coffee........

    I second what Den and AM have said.

    These machines are too expensive to scrimp on cleaners? ::)

  13. #13
    Wine_of_the_Bean
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    Re: Cafetto

    Nothing wrong with Homebrand Nappy Treatment for group handles. Wouldnt backflush with it though.

  14. #14
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F75757A757371140 link=1273552118/9#9 date=1273611646
    Really?? A search brings up 5 posts with the words Cafetto and dishwashing (including this one) with only 1 post (by Dennis) going into any detail about what the differences are. The rest are just hand waving warnings
    Try backflush powder or machine cleaner (trust me this is a can of worms that has been opened before, just cause you cant find it doesnt mean it doesnt exist).

    Nothing more to add to the conversation it has all been said before, do what you like.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E202D223523224C0 link=1273552118/1#1 date=1273552518
    No such thing as a dumb question, only dumb people who dont ask questions. It is ok for soaking group-handles in just dont soak the plastic handles in it as over time they will suffer.
    This also my view & if moto did not post it first I would have posted the same answer

    KK


  16. #16
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F75757A757371140 link=1273552118/9#9 date=1273611646
    Quote Originally Posted by 4A444946514746280 link=1273552118/6#6 date=1273563483
    BTW this has been discussed earlier in heaps of detail if you want to go into the details. *
    Really?? A search brings up 5 posts with the words Cafetto and dishwashing (including this one) with only 1 post (by Dennis) going into any detail about what the differences are. The rest are just hand waving warnings

    Im not talking about back flushing, people. Just for soaking.

    Or do people here drink Caffeto?

    And even if the chemical compositions are different, the task requirements are almost identical apart, possibly, from solubility and thorough rinsing (which should be done with any cleaning agent) would take care of residues due to that.

    BTW It is the pH that breaks down the oils when cleaning which is the cause of residue from espresso extraction. The oxygenating component of bleaching agents (as present in Cafetto and Napisan) act to a) sterilise and b) break down certaing colouring agents to hide stains. Neither of these effects should affect the soaking of coffee components (or backwashing but lets not get into that).
    Search only brings up 5 posts with word Cafetto and dishwashing, really, try completing the search parameters correctly, just did the same search and got 11 hits, make sure you highlight all boards you wish to search, post made in last > search all posts, display how many results > 50, it works. ;)

  17. #17
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 53595956595F5D380 link=1273552118/9#9 date=1273611646
    Quote Originally Posted by 4A444946514746280 link=1273552118/6#6 date=1273563483
    BTW this has been discussed earlier in heaps of detail if you want to go into the details. *
    Really?? A search brings up 5 posts with the words Cafetto and dishwashing (including this one) with only 1 post (by Dennis) going into any detail about what the differences are. The rest are just hand waving warnings

    Im not talking about back flushing, people. Just for soaking.

    Or do people here drink Caffeto?

    And even if the chemical compositions are different, the task requirements are almost identical apart, possibly, from solubility and thorough rinsing (which should be done with any cleaning agent) would take care of residues due to that.

    BTW It is the pH that breaks down the oils when cleaning which is the cause of residue from espresso extraction. The oxygenating component of bleaching agents (as present in Cafetto and Napisan) act to a) sterilise and b) break down certaing colouring agents to hide stains. Neither of these effects should affect the soaking of coffee components (or backwashing but lets not get into that).
    If you know so much, why ask us? Seriously :-?

  18. #18
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    Re: Cafetto

    For those who arent sure about soaking plastic parts in Cafetto, I have been using it to clean a plastic frame plunger (out of a plunger mug) for some years now, and there does not seem to be any deterioration of the plastic that I can tell. I do not know what type of plastic the plunger mug is made from, but it is the best way to get the metal screen clean.
    I usually soak the plunger in the same solution I used to clean the pf, basket, shower screen, etc, for a few minutes, scrub the plunger screen with a brush, and thoroughly rinse after cleaning.

    However I agree that it is wise to keep the plastic handles of the pf out of the Cafetto solution.

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Javaphile's Avatar
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    Re: Cafetto

    One of the big reasons not to let the plastic handles soak in the cleaning solution is if they are then that means that the solution is very likely getting inside of the handles where it is less likely to be washed off. Which means that it will sit in there and corrode the metal. Once the corrosion has reached a certain point it will crack/break the plastic handle in the same way that corroding/rusting rebar will split concrete.


    Java "Respect the tools!" phile

  20. #20
    A_M
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 48637463726A6B6E67020 link=1273552118/18#18 date=1273795041
    One of the big reasons not to let the plastic handles soak in the cleaning solution is if they are then that means that the solution is very likely getting inside of the handles where it is less likely to be washed off. Which means that it will sit in there and corrode the metal. Once the corrosion has reached a certain point it will crack/break the plastic handle in the same way that corroding/rusting rebar will split concrete.


    Java "Respect the tools!" phile

    Here Here...

    And when ya want to screw the handle off to swap with another format / product - It make for HARD work with out breaking things.

    Please define "tools" ;D Many tools here in politics / business etc and have little respect for them.

  21. #21
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    Re: Cafetto

    Quote Originally Posted by 210E0705122D010E0107050D050E14600 link=1273552118/10#10 date=1273616527
    Now if ya using Finish to soak something else... Would I drop in a few coffee bits at the same time- Why not

    Would finish or some other house hold cleaning agent be my first choice... No...

    OohhhWhats that my wife has in the cupboard..Borax / White Vinegar etc....
    Thanks for bringing some sanity to this topic AM, although White Vinegar, being acidic, would not be anywhere near as effective for soaking group handles as a basic compound (add baking soda to your list). White Vinegar is suitable as a very mild descaler for aluminium boiler/thermoblock machines, however.

    I would repeat my original question, though, which is has anyone else here tried dishwashing powder for SOAKING.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3733150C0C0916010E600 link=1273552118/11#11 date=1273617108
    Cafetto is designed for it, specifically for coffee, Finish is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by 3733150C0C0916010E600 link=1273552118/16#16 date=1273641406
    If you know so much, why ask us? Seriously
    I ask to see how open minded people are here in order to help newcomers gauge the relative knowledge of posters. There is a strong follow the leader mentality on this site where earlier quotes are used as "proof" of a fact when in reality, all that is being done is to re-express an opinion.

    As for the "design" of Cafetto vs dishwashing powder (like Finish), Cafetto is "designed" for backwashing. Using it to soak components is a secondary function which, due to its chemical composition, it happens to do rather well. The key parameters for backwashing are the solubility and pH - you need a relatively high pH to break down the oily coffee residues so that they can be flushed away and you need good solubility so that residues are not left in the group assembly, where it is difficult to physically clean. Note that quite a lot of rinsing is specified (all the backflushes with just water) not to mention the addition of a seasoning shot of coffee to remove any residual chemical tastes.
    Now lets look at the requirements for domestic dishwashing powder - you need a you need a relatively high pH to break down the oily food residues so that they can be washed away without physical scrubbing and you need good solubility so that residues are not left on the dishes and utensils, after rinsing, so that they do not carry the washing chemicals into your next meal. Gosh - how different.

    As for why Cafetto might say on their website and other documentation to not use dishwashing chemicals with coffee equipment, consider the real market for Cafetto. Its not "designed" for the relatively small (in terms of usage) domestic high end machine markets but for cafes and restaurants which
    a) use loads of the stuff
    b) use commercial dishwashers with short cycles and multi wash dishwashing tablets
    The commercial dishwashers need a higher, more corrosive pH to break down the oils (often with poorly craped down dishes) in much shorter timespan and lower solubility so that they dont need detergent dosing for each wash cycle. Together, this could corrode components soaked in them + possibly leave residues in nooks and crannies (like the group handle spring groove).

    One of the posts that I did find from my crappy, poorly composed search, had a recommendation from a long term member, that a Gaggia owner should not was his group handle in the dishwasher due to the "inappropriate" chemical composition. Domestic Gaggias cannot use Cafetto (else youd have to replace the dispersion screen rather frequently) so the OP was advised to buy something that he did not need. It is this sort of "advice" that leads me to this ramble.

  22. #22
    TC
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    Re: Cafetto

    For mine, it and Bombora clean machine do the job really well and theyre not expensive either. I fail to understand why youd spend hundreds/thousands on a machine and then try to save a few bucks by using smething which may not be fit for purpose. Same goes for descaler.

  23. #23
    A_M
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    Re: Cafetto

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 4E44444B444240250 link=1273552118/20#20 date=1273966330
    which is has anyone else here tried dishwashing powder for SOAKING.
    YES... Even after all the recommended stuff...

    Result - No better and not a fair test...

    I used just about every cleaning and chemical product rated for food etc and made up at different strengths etc - Not able to do teh job.

    Chemical remover - rated for heavy road TAR... It worked.

    Would I use it every day - NO..

    It comes back to fit for purpose... And like many things how lazy the user is.

    Cleaning etc and toss in the dish washer... Fine.

    But use it as a back flush = NO

    I am lazy... I am doing a back flush and has the cleaner in my hands.. A bit of warm water and a soak for the other bits..

    Hell some times I just sprinkle a bit extra in the wast tray and drop the baskets etc in there.. Run some hot water and also do my back-flush... 3-ways and I get extra cleaning prudicy being dumped in to teh cleaning tray.

    Guess what. Baskets / machine / group head etc and Waste tray all being cleaned at teh same time.. Clean up in Hot water and done.. One cleaning product and one cleaning session..

    KISS

    NOTE: While cleaners are no created equal... Neither are dirty items and one dirty group may not be the same as another.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4E44444B444240250 link=1273552118/20#20 date=1273966330
    There is a strong follow the leader mentality on this site where earlier quotes are used as "proof" of a fact when in reality, all that is being done is to re-express an opinion.
    Best you look at 90% of all papers and research all over teh world... Many just reference a dozen other papers that referenced others ans so on.. A full detailed drill down often shows that teh actual research and or study was done years ago and ever other paper since (6 levels removed) have all drawn long bows and NO re visit of teh actual studies have ever been re done.

    WHY - Lots of reasons.. Too hard / expensive/product not available/different contexts/ WHS/ Now un ethical.. Etc etc





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