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Thread: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

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    Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Now, Ive been still getting used to how much coffee to put in the portafilter *(see http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1273719482/2#2) after moving from the famously overdosing Sunbeam EM6910 to an Expobar Megacrem 2-group.

    I suspect Ive been overdosing, and after recently upgrading to a dosing grinder and actually checking how many grams Im dosing seems to confirm that.

    Underdosing heavily, compared to usual, results in the attached pic, which also seems to confirm that my usual dose is too much. *The faint lines from the group head are usually very ridged, so again, Im guessing that Ive been overdosing.

    Would appreciate any knowledge from wiser heads, in particular if the ridging is a result of overdosing or whether different machines create different patterns (I am assuming a correct dose would result in a flat profile on all machines).


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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Show us your "after" pic (after pulling a shot) and I can soon tell you. Is the grouphandle easy to pull to the perpendicular or do you have to wrench it?

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    A_M
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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    giggled like a schoolgirl

    That is an OVER DOSE all right *;)

    After removing ya should see an imprint of the 5 cent piece. *If your judging by other impressions and ignoring that the 5 cent piece has been embedded into the puck.. *Then ya EM6910 would have been having major issues...

    Still ROF and trying to type... Ya made my day.. *Great post and a pic worth keeping to show others..


    Grind and tamp, load 5 cent piece... *Lock in...

    Unlock, remove 5 cent piece..

    Have a look and what do you see.

    1: Coin has been embedded in puck - Massive Overdose *::) *(Or ya have a bloody big nut from the shower screen pushing down - change it fpo
    2: No imprint what so ever - Under dose ???
    3: Slight imprint of the coin in the puck ??

    Number 3 could be a good place to start pulling shots and inspecting the result.

    Remember different beans will expand differently and be dependant on the grind and tamp as well.

    The proof is in the cup and the used puck.

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    Senior Member javabeen's Avatar
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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    A naked pf is a valuable tool to help you work out your dose. What do the shots taste like?

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    @Moto Coffee
    Will send a pic in a few days - is only used once a week on a small market stall. Result itself is a beautiful coffee, but maybe because of other factors. Group handle is easy to pull to the perpendicular.

    @ Angermanagement.
    Glad to provide amusement. Its lovely how more experienced people can pass on their knowledge to the uninitiated with such graciousness, even if its only about a hot beverage. Id be happy to do the same with your grammar and spelling. Being 2500km from the nearest major city the opportunities from learning on the spot from an expert a fairly thin on the ground.
    The EM6910 hasnt had any issues, after pulling 100+ shots/week for 6 months and 20+ for the last few months.

    Anyway, will take photos of used puck on the weekend. The puck is usually a dry biscuit which comes out in one piece, as I assume it should be.


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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    @javabeen
    The shots are lovely and pull beautifully.

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    A_M
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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Quote Originally Posted by 507B7E7E6B3F7D120 link=1274249469/4#4 date=1274253652
    Will send a pic in a few days - is only used once a week on a small market stall. *Result itself is a beautiful coffee,
    AND

    Quote Originally Posted by 507B7E7E6B3F7D120 link=1274249469/4#4 date=1274253652
    Anyway, will take photos of used puck on the weekend. *The puck is usually a dry biscuit which comes out in one piece, as I assume it should be. *
    Sounds like the cup is telling the story.. *Well done.


    Quote Originally Posted by 507B7E7E6B3F7D120 link=1274249469/4#4 date=1274253652
    but maybe because of other factors. *
    Arrr thats the joy of coffee..

    Remember the balance between Blend, Grind and Tamp.

    Thus for me I can get a good shot from under dosing or over dosing.. But as a tec... Why stress the group and seals, IF *I do not need to.

    i.e. *A finer grind is often a good step to reducing the need to over dose.. *But one has to work on it *;)


    Quote Originally Posted by 507B7E7E6B3F7D120 link=1274249469/4#4 date=1274253652
    Glad to provide amusement. *Its lovely how more experienced people can pass on their knowledge to the uninitiated with such graciousness, even if its only about a hot beverage. *Id be happy to do the same with your grammar and spelling. *
    It was not amusement but some what of a reflection of where one might have been or come from.

    As to the highlight.. Could read that many ways *;) But am assuming positive rather than sarcastic...

    But do not be confused... Many other than me, try to pass on their knowledge and or experiences and it is often not taken up. *But we all are glad to hear or get feed back when positive outcomes happen.

    WTF - (why the face)
    Quote Originally Posted by 507B7E7E6B3F7D120 link=1274249469/4#4 date=1274253652
    The EM6910 hasnt had any issues, after pulling 100+ shots/week for 6 months and 20+ for the last few months.
    As a person who strongly believes that these units (EM6910) can perform well when used correctly and looked after...

    I take my hat off to you... *Keep it up and when it dies... I want to perform the Autopsy.

    You should be answering the EM6910 posts as to problems.. I am happy to hand over to you... Bloody well done.. *8-)




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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    @Angermanagement
    re: EM6010
    I do slightly lie, the steamer died (lost guts and would periodically stop completely after which we would give it a 15 minute spell), though the exact same thing happened to someone else who was using it domestically for 5 - 10 cups a week, so not sure if that was due to usage or an inherent problem. We got it replaced on warranty by the same negligent retailer who told me it was covered for commercial use - then we got a proper machine that made our lives much easier, but I still use it daily at home with great results.
    Other than that its functioned beautifully.
    Dont think I could answer posts about problems as we didnt really have any - just regularly cleaned it and only used rainwater.
    I think Sunbeam stuff is pretty patchy - fantastic customer service, good equipment but poor quality control.

    Well work on the mysteries of the dosing, but assume we need to dose lighter!

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    At the risk of exposing myself to further public flogging, here is the dose that the coin shot was taken from. Note that this is far less than we usually dose - but perhaps still too much?
    (please excuse the mess)


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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    ...and level of tamper in basket, which made me think (in my ignorance) that it was underdosed. Would appreciate collective wisdom on this!




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    A_M
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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Quote Originally Posted by 5B707575603476190 link=1274249469/8#8 date=1274256294
    At the risk of exposing myself to further public flogging, here is the dose that the coin shot was taken from. *Note that this is far less than we usually dose - but perhaps still too much?
    (please excuse the mess)
    Hard to say with out the machine / the pour and the final taste but depending on the shower head... That looks about right.

    Grinds could be a little course for my liking... But again.... So many variables.... If ya clients like / love the result.. Why change ?

    Not knowing the Expobar Megacrem it is just a guess as to how it all works.. *

    But remember... *Coffee Parts sells lots of spacers and many service people put them in to keep the group handle pointing at *6:00 and to stop leaking around the groups... Age and worne.. Speed of which can be directly attributed to dose levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by 052E2B2B3E6A28470 link=1274249469/9#9 date=1274256562
    ..and level of tamper in basket, which made me think (in my ignorance) that it was underdosed. *Would appreciate collective wisdom on this!
    That looks like a THIN tamp to me.. Have a look at the Pullman Espresso units and or many others... Quite a thick base.

    KK for example tamps his old system and it had about 8mm between the top of the basket and the puck..

    If you used the theory of the thickness of the tamp and he had yours... KK would have never pull a shot.

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Well, Saturday will tell. BTW, grinds were old packet stuff that I was using to experiment on the new doser, usually grind a bit finer.

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    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Unfortunately there are no guidelines for things like tamper depth or even gram measures. :( The variance between brands, and even between machines makes this impossible. As AM points out, the presence of a bolt holding on the shower screen will change the results of the 5 test. The bean type, grind, and roast level will change the volume of a gram measure as well. (Ask me about standards on Italian motorcycles and youll get the same answer. ;D)

    The usual procedure I recommend is the same as AMs above. If you have a bolt in the shower screen then placing the coin off-centre so it misses the bolt head helps.

    In the end however, the result is in the cup (and in the longevity of the machine).

    Greg

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E5B4C4E7E465B4448454D290 link=1274249469/12#12 date=1274257945
    Unfortunately there are no guidelines for things like tamper depth or even gram measures. Cry The variance between brands, and even between machines makes this impossible.
    Greg is correct, I have discovered with my Bezzera that the shower screen is set a little lower in the group head than most other machines, this means a little more space must be left to prevent over dosing, no big deal once you know about it but a trap for the unwary, I guess what Im trying to convey is that as Greg said all machines have their idiosyncrasies that the owner learns to come to terms with over time. :)

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Compared to my megacrem that pick looks underdosed, I generally dont like to see the ridge in the basket. But as others have said it is whats in the cup that counts, if it tastes good then you are on the right track.

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Quote Originally Posted by 444A47485F4948260 link=1274249469/14#14 date=1274264503
    Compared to my megacrem that pick looks underdosed, I generally dont like to see the ridge in the basket. But as others have said it is whats in the cup that counts, if it tastes good then you are on the right track.
    ?That seems contradictory?
    It does seem underdosed to me too, but the ridge......?

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    The ridge in the basket is the bit that holds it in the grouphandle. If I can see it after I have tamped I wouldnt expect a good shot.

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    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    To the ridge means to the top of the channel in the wall of the basket (about 3 to 4mm from the top of the basket) - and not to the top of the basket

    Its also helpful to time your shots - 30ml from a 30sec extraction with the correct dose and grind, will usually generate a pretty good result - this is not the gospel truth - but its a pretty good rule of thumb

    I also like to weigh my grind (occasionally) to see how much Im putting in the basket and to measure for consistency

    See how you go with the above

    From experience the Megacrem has low(ish) shower screens and doesnt like to be packed too tightly or too full (same thing really)

    Cheers,

    Pat

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Quote Originally Posted by 1D323B392E113D323D3B39313932285C0 link=1274249469/10#10 date=1274256770
    KK for example tamps his old system and it had about 8mm between the top of the basket and the puck..

    My personal experience is with the Galatea and the BZ40

    Its fair to say that its same for most Bezzera machines
    A tamp of 8mm is required for correct clearance *
    It does not matter what basket you use, the tamp depth stays the same

    So if you like stronger coffee use a larger basket

    KK

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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    @ moto coffee
    Sorry, I misinterpreted ridge as the ridge that you can see made by the group head. Makes sense now.

    @ askthecoffeeguy
    Yes, the shower screens are fairly low.
    To go back to part of my original question, if theres a large indent being made by the side of the shower screen, I assume that means the basket it overpacked?

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    Senior Member Koffee_Kosmo's Avatar
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    Re: Of the five cent piece test, dosing, and other unknowns

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 5E7570706531731C0 link=1274249469/19#19 date=1274269687
    To go back to part of my original question, if theres a large indent being made by the side of the shower screen, I assume that means the basket it overpacked?
    Yes
    It should clear the screen by a hairs whisker
    You will get away with a very light touch but thats about it

    KK



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