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Thread: Experiment with stale coffee.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Experiment with stale coffee.

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Collected all of the spilled ground coffee from the grinder tray over the past week or so, this morning I weighed out 19 grams of the stuff and pulled a shot with it, the result? well, not as bad as you would imagine.
    On a scale of 1 to 10 I would give my average shot with freshly ground beans a score of about 8 to 9, the stale coffee scored about a 4, drinkable (just) bearing in mind Ive been served coffee that scored well below this in commercial establishments and paid $3.50 a cup for the stuff.
    So, I hear you ask, what does all this prove? well, it proves that freshly ground is by far the best option (we all knew that) but makes you wonder what the establishments that serve up this sh*t coffee do to sink to such a low point, I guess its a combination of stale coffee, cheap beans and poor technique (I suppose we all knew that as well) ;)

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    The place I worked at used the grinds from the tray.
    But to be fair it was only that days grinds. ::)

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0C302D363C3D2A3F373C580 link=1276913387/1#1 date=1276917756
    But to be fair it was only that days grinds.
    Ahhh, well, thats ok then. :D

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Ive seen my local cafe grinding the beans of an afternoon. Enough for the whole next day and then some... :-X I asked why and they said it takes too long. I guess you wouldnt want to sacrifice time for something like quality or taste!

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    A_M
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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B534B14524E544343260 link=1276913387/3#3 date=1276943693
    Ive seen my local cafe grinding the beans of an afternoon. *Enough for the whole next day and then some... :-X I asked why and they said it takes too long. *I guess you wouldnt want to sacrifice time for something like quality or taste!
    Ya... But it is worse when they do it Friday afternoon and open next Monday ;D

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Hello Jon,

    you may not realise, but there are a significant number of clients that like and want the taste of stale coffee.

    They dont necessarily know that what they like is the character of "staleness"....nevertheless that is what they like.

    In that case however, it is better to age the beans under good storage conditions and still grind on demand, rather than use old grinds.

    mum2three: many cafe people still think that way, but coffee education is slowly creeping up...


    Regardz,
    Attilio
    VFCSSS (very first CS site sponsor).

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    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 704453455E69755950505353360 link=1276913387/5#5 date=1276946189
    you may not realise, but there are a significant number of clients that like and want the taste of stale coffee.
    Seriously! your right, I had no idea.
    If thats the case I would imagine they would have far less trouble getting a cuppa to their liking than us (so called) Snobs.
    Maybe their Yanks or French. *::)

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    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 48504817514D574040250 link=1276913387/3#3 date=1276943693
    Ive seen my local cafe grinding the beans of an afternoon.Enough for the whole next day and then some... I asked why and they said it takes too long.
    Funny that. Unless Einstein was wrong, I think it takes just as long no matter when they do it.



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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    what cafe is that? just so we all know never to go there

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Jon,

    thank you for leading us to an extremely meaningful / useful discussion (whether you realised or not at first ;))

    I was talking aged beans.....but dont forget all the usual "wet"coffee making rules apply......

    CoffeeSnobs Coffee Appreciation A01:

    Which cuppa tastes better, the one using stale beans but made well, or the one using fresh beans but made badly? *Espresso Machine Operator properly understands application of grinder, dose and tamp irrespective, or does not?

    Some time back I recommended to the CS community they try robusta and see what they really think, instead of only regurgitating what theyve read elsewhere ( "robusta bad, arabica good" yeah yeah) without having tested the water (so to speak) to make a properly informed judgement.

    I was happy to see some did and I think some good came from it eg, would you rather a 100% arabica blend using low grade arabica, or a blend that intelligently uses some *better quality robusta......or would you just rather the wet coffee is good, and who cares whats in it anyway if it tastes good?

    I would like to suggest the same again....try putting some beans aside, storing properly, and keeping them say 12 weeks. Open and try each week for the 12 weeks, make both espresso, as well as milk coffee because you should not forget that our coffee culture is based on milk not black coffee, and that is what most clients buy.

    Take notes and see what your own palate tells you over the period.

    If you want to understand better "what gives" in the market (rather than just from a CS point of view), use beans that you think are more likely to be used in a commercial situation (eg no point using a blend with a high proportion of one of the mochas, because the character that gives to a blend would not necessarily go well in a cafe situation and may age very very badly).

    Make sure you have enough beans for wastage as you will have to keep resetting the grinder to work out where the "sweet spot" is each time you go back to those beans.

    In the words of one very experienced roaster who once (when I was trying to get him to give me his opinion on something), kept answering me with ......

    ........"You ty....".

    Regardz,
    Attilio.
    VFCSSS (very first CS site sponsor).

    PS:
    TG, yes to your post above, and note that (their perception of) speed of operation VS the quality of their brews, usually do not compute together. Someone that employs that line of thinking (that speed is good because we are sooooooo busy) usually doesnt know about the other important stuff either, starting with how to manage the grinder and get it in synch with beans & machine being used.

    Its the same old story, look at the cliche that "with espresso, less is more". This can be expanded easily to "with espresso, more speed means less quality".



  11. #11
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 67534452497E624E47474444210 link=1276913387/9#9 date=1276991681
    thank you for leading us to an extremely meaningful / useful discussion (whether you realised or not at first Wink)
    I thought it was a subject worthy of discussion given that much of the repartee here centres on clichés about stale beans and ground coffee. ;)

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Yes Jon, a lot of members (insert apology here for being straight up) need to stop regurgitating the stuff theyve "researched" on the net without having any real experience, and if they really are interested in Coffee Appreciation, should do the homework themselves and form opinions based on their own reality instead of someone elses.

    Regardz,
    A. *

    Going off line now to go out and play...its sunday....already had my coffee...it was good....(good beans and well made)....and my hobby calls. Coffee and machines are my life, so I need a different hobby to refresh.

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 0B3F283E25120E222B2B28284D0 link=1276913387/9#9 date=1276991681
    try putting some beans aside, storing properly, and keeping them say 12 weeks
    Ive done this to the 6 week mark and didnt like what I tasted.

    However, I will say that it was drinkable* and in my opinion would not have been as offensive to most as it was to me, because many, as already stated, are used to stale coffee being served to them.

    *If Id been served this in a cafe I wouldnt return.

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1A2E392F34031F333A3A39395C0 link=1276913387/11#11 date=1276992822
    I need a different hobby to refresh.
    And the hobby is? :)

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Good for you TG youve done it and made up your own mind.

    I respect that.

    And everyone is an individual and one persons opinion is not necessarily the same as the next persons. Same thing in both coffee and wine. You can argue about perceived quality all you like, but it will never stop someone loving their lambrusco, while someone else loves the latest Jimmy Watson trophy winner.

    Im not calling it one way or another, just putting it out there that people should think carefully before regurgitating their "research" round and round in these sites particularly when it has no basis in their own experience.

    Jon, thanks for your interest...it will go off line.

    Regardz,
    A.

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    A_M
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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 714552445F68745851515252370 link=1276913387/14#14 date=1277004163
    And everyone is an individual and one persons opinion is not necessarily the same as the next persons. Same thing in both coffee and wine. You can argue about perceived quality all you like, but it will never stop someone loving their lambrusco, while someone else loves the latest Jimmy Watson trophy winner. *
    A mate of mine loves his Lavasa blue beans from Coles and uses a Saceo Magic deluxe and fills his bean hopper.. *2 coffees a day... No more... One in the morning and one at night..

    My other mate will not drink any thing else other than International Roast (but only from the small tins - fresher he says).


    I respect the fact that they are comfortable with me; so as to state what they like and stick to their *guns; so to speak.. *I joke but respect that they like something different..

    I cant quite come at the Saceo pale mud (opps have one in the shed - final testing) but at 2:30am on the beach, in the middle of winter... That dammed International Roast is Bloody GREAT .. *And Quick and easy too *;D


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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F535A4257360 link=1276913387/0#0 date=1276913387
    Collected all of the spilled ground coffee from the grinder tray
    I thought thats what Moccona was made from ;D

    Talking about stale coffee- this brings me onto a slight tangent - I ran dry on coffee stocks at home and wont get to do a home roast til at least the next 2-3 days. I was a little desperado and rocked up to Coles to see what they had to serve me for a few days while my next home roast degases. I picked up a 200g bag of Coles Finest Ethiopian beans and noted that the roast date was only 18 days ago. While this is a bit too long for my normal liking, its probably the freshest one would see at a supermarket. It also says "hand roasted" on the pack, but who knows what that means...

    I busted open the packet (one-way) and was not displeased with the appearance and the aroma was quite reminiscent of a cross between Harrar and Yirg. Quite floral and having a chew on a couple of the beans give a light lemon/cocoa flavour, a bit of peach stone fruit and with a few florals that my uneducated tongue just cant put a finger on.

    To tell you the truth- Im extremely surprised to say the least... :o
    Didnt expect anything like this from a supermarket...


    Cant run the grinder now - kids are asleep, but I cant wait to give it a whirl first thing tomorrow morning... ;)

    Hopefully give you a verdict tomorrow...

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 110600060A15063C170B063C130C140611630 link=1276913387/16#16 date=1281271764
    the roast date was only 18 days ago
    Thats quite amazing considering the logistics involved in getting product from source to shelf in Coles.

    Are you sure it wasnt the "Best Before" date? ;D

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3F282E28243B2812392528123D223A283F4D0 link=1276913387/16#16 date=1281271764
    noted that the roast date was only 18 days ago.
    18 days is not bad should still cut the mustard.
    Quote Originally Posted by 3F282E28243B2812392528123D223A283F4D0 link=1276913387/16#16 date=1281271764
    Cant run the grinder now - kids are asleep, but I cant wait to give it a whirl first thing tomorrow morning...
    Oh Oh, the difference between 18 and 18.5 days is critical, you will find that overnight they have all turned to crap. ;) :D ;D ::)

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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E524F545E5F485D555E3A0 link=1276913387/17#17 date=1281276547
    Thats quite amazing considering the logistics involved in getting product from source to shelf in Coles.

    Are you sure it wasnt the "Best Before" date?
    Nah - the best before is a few months ahead. Thats why I bought it cause it was only 18 days past roast date.

    Quote Originally Posted by 635F564E5B3A0 link=1276913387/18#18 date=1281307794
    Oh Oh, the difference between 18 and 18.5 days is critical, you will find that overnight they have all turned to crap. *
    hahahaha! ;D

    Vedict- Ran a couple of shots this morning and I must say that these beans are predominantly Yirg. Light body, great citrus and subtle aromatics. Both shots were around the 30ml/30sec mark and I didnt even have to fiddle with the grinder (Sunbeam EM series). Crema was great and taste was not much different than when Ive had home-roasted Yirg which was around 10+ days old. Of course most of the aromatics were not there (something has to give), however I found that when I home-roasted Yirg most of the aromatics dissipated by around day 5-6...

    All things being subjective if my homeroast was an 8 or 9 out of 10; Id give these beans a 7.

    Ive read that most supermarket stuff is rubbish and stale, but if you can get these soon after roasting, then they most certainly do well as an "in-between" commercial blend.

    By the way - machine is a Rancilio Silvia...




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    Re: Experiment with stale coffee.

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 2B3C3A3C302F3C062D313C0629362E3C2B590 link=1276913387/19#19 date=1281318135
    All things being subjective if my homeroast was an 8 or 9 out of 10; Id give these beans a 7.
    Good stuff RTP, so the age of miracles hasnt passed. ;)



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