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Thread: extraction in 25 seconds

  1. #1
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    extraction in 25 seconds

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    I hope this is posted in the correct section

    In all the years i have had my machine i never bothered too much with the whole 30ml in 25 seconds.

    I always thought i had a good tasting coffee.

    However, yesterday i decided to order a timer and a 30ml measuring glass.

    It arrived today so i decided to try my current technique to see what the results were.

    I am very embarrassed to say the least

    a 30mm pour took a whole 12 seconds.....ooops.

    Now i have read a few ways of filling and tamping the basket on the ecm giotto.
    Some say fill up wipe with finger and tamp.
    others say 7-9 grams of coffee.

    I tried the first way and the handle was very hard to insert into the machine.

    I then tried 7 grams, using the kitchen digital scales and was too little, 10 grams seemed to work the best for the single basket.

    I then figured it takes around 14 seconds for the mini to grind out 10 grams.

    Adjusted the grind to slightly finer and we got closer to the 25 second extraction.

    Finally after 3 shots, i am bang on at 25-27 seconds for a 30ml poor.
    This is including the crema.

    What can i say, i made the wife the first one and she said, this is sooo much smoother, did you buy different beans? :)

    I made one for myself and sure enough she was correct.

    It only took me 5 years to do this :)
    there is no looking back now.

    So i highly recommend to anyone out there, take your time and get it spot on. It is well worth it.

    I am still going to fine tune a little, but am very happy with the results.

    I am not sure why the filling the basket technique did not work for me though.

    I may purchase a set of those dosing tools and give it another shot
    Calibrator likes this.

  2. #2
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Recommend you try a triple basket, or at least a double. Much better for espresso than small single baskets.

  3. #3
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    thanks for the tip rival. Put the double basket on now. Doesnt matter if its a single spout does it?

    will give it a shot in half an hour

  4. #4
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by 052027210E4F0 link=1280461796/2#2 date=1280468456
    t. Doesnt matter if its a single spout does it?
    the grinds are not going to know :) and its good to hear you think its an improvement on the coffee

    i dont have any spout at all on mine

    lots use the double basket to make a single shot, many find it easier to get a better shot out of the double basket and more beans.

    I use a double all the time and agree with the idea

  5. #5
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by 29322D3A37636A5B0 link=1280461796/1#1 date=1280466268
    at least a double. Much better for espresso than small single baskets.
    Very true, never used a triple so cant comment.

  6. #6
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Thanks Maheel

    damn, i am going to have to go allot finer to get a 25 second 30ml extraction using the double basket.

    did the fill, tap, fill, level with finger, then tamp.

    30ml in 13 seconds.

    Will keep adjusting the grind to see how fine i must go.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by 515D545959503C0 link=1280461796/3#3 date=1280470903
    the grinds are not going to know
    My theory is two streams of coffee flowing through the air into the cup are going to cool faster than one, may only be minimal but must have some affect.

    Quote Originally Posted by 515D545959503C0 link=1280461796/3#3 date=1280470903
    many find it easier to get a better shot out of the double basket and more beans.

    I use a double all the time and agree with the idea *
    So do I. *;)

  8. #8
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F2A2D2B04450 link=1280461796/5#5 date=1280472269
    Thanks Maheel

    damn, i am going to have to go allot finer to get a 25 second 30ml extraction using the double basket.
    For a standard Double Shot, this shouldnt be necessary...

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F2A2D2B04450 link=1280461796/5#5 date=1280472269
    did the fill, tap, fill, level with finger, then tamp.

    30ml in 13 seconds.
    Youre actually supposed to be pouring a 60ml shot for a Double - Unless you are trying for Ristretto shots. In rough terms, your existing grind setting that pulls 30ml in 13 seconds equates to a Double of 60ml in 26-28 seconds. Spot on, in other words....

    Quote Originally Posted by 0F2A2D2B04450 link=1280461796/5#5 date=1280472269
    Will keep adjusting the grind to see how fine i must go.
    Leave the setting as is and see how long it takes to pour a volume of 60ml.... ;)

    Mal.

  9. #9
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Mal, thank you so much.

    i was about to say, there is no way i can do a 30ml extraction in 25 seconds with the double :)

    will put the grind back to were i had it, (good thing i marked the spot) and do it again for the first cup in the morning.

    So a 60ml pour for one cup of coffee

    GOT IT ;D

  10. #10
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    No worries John...

    Let us know how it goes..... :)

    Mal.

  11. #11
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    I had to adjust the grind slightly finer to get the 60ml pour in 25 seconds.
    I repeated it a couple of times to make sure i got the same result.

    IMHO, i feel its just a touch on the bitter side. I am going to put this down to my dosing technique and i may grind a little coarser and try again later today

  12. #12
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    re adjusted grind again back to were i had it for a single basket. Adjusted my dosing technique and got the 60ml in 26 seconds.

    Still prefer the taste out of the single basket though

  13. #13
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Im the same john.

    I either pour a single, which is harder to get spot on (seems very sensitive to dose and im still searching for a technique that gives me good identical results) or use the double basket and just toss one shot down the sink :-[

    I roast my own so cost wise im not too fussed with wasting a shot now and then. If you do a ristretto with the double basket just use a bigger cup (if you have one) to combat the stronger flavour if its too much (what i do anyway).

  14. #14
    Senior Member GregWormald's Avatar
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    The reality is that whatever works with your equipment, for you, is what works for you. The recommendations are generalities that have been shown to be a good starting point.

    My recommendation ;D is that you try the 5 cent test (a search here will find it) for dosing, grind to get 50-60 ml in 25-30 seconds (double basket), and then stop the extraction short (say, 30 or 40 ml) and try a ristretto.

    The best shots I ever have are made by Mark Barun at his shop! (Hi Mark.) He uses a triple basket and the result rarely exceeds 30 ml. --rather than the 90 ml. that a triple would seem to indicate. These I drink straight.

    At home I usually make small lattes--about 60-70 ml. total from a 25 or 30 ml. double dose extraction.

    Enjoy the coffee.

    Greg

  15. #15
    A_M
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by 6F5A4D4F7F475A4549444C280 link=1280461796/13#13 date=1280543260
    The reality is that whatever works with your equipment, for you, is what works for you. The recommendations are generalities that have been shown to be a good starting point.

    My recommendation ;D is that you try the 5 cent test (a search here will find it) for dosing, grind to get 50-60 ml in 25-30 seconds (double basket), and then stop the extraction short (say, 30 or 40 ml) and try a ristretto.

    The best shots I ever have are made by Mark Barun at his shop! (Hi Mark.) He uses a triple basket and the result rarely exceeds 30 ml. --rather than the 90 ml. that a triple would seem to indicate. These I drink straight.

    At home I usually make small lattes--about 60-70 ml. total from a 25 or 30 ml. double dose extraction.

    Enjoy the coffee.

    Greg
    I have used triple baskets; but treat them as a double.....

    Thus a 50-60ml shot in 25-30sec on a triple basket is what I tens to look for...

    Other wise I have to go for a 30 - 40 sec shot in a double to get what I like in my coffee cup.

  16. #16
    Rbn
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    OK - so resurrecting this thread.

    What should I do, I am getting 60ml in 13 seconds, very thick crema, it is still on the top 45 minutes later.

    Do I need to tamp harder, and polish it more. Really I am a total newbie.

    I only did the mod to my grinder today and have to do some relearning. But I am guessing I was getting about 120ml in 25 seconds.

  17. #17
    TC
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Hi rawill,

    Fresh coffee, a good grinder and www.espressocompany.com.au/how-to.htm will get you started.

    Good luck

    2mcm

  18. #18
    Rbn
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Thank you for the link - good tips for a novice - I still have too much expresso in my 10 second shot, about 50 ml> But it tastes fine to me! ;D

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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Quote Originally Posted by 332036282D2D410 link=1280461797/17#17 date=1290389196
    But it tastes fine to me! ;D
    So whats the problem? ;)

    Youre getting the coffee you like. Surely thats what its all about?

  20. #20
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    Re: extraction in 25 seconds

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Hey rawill,

    Im another newbie and have got a modded Breville BCG450 too that Id been using for stove top before I got my machine, unfortunately I think that may be the problem. Even on the finest grind setting and tamping way too hard I havent been able to get anywhere near 25-30 sec with it. Fortunately Ive got a neighbour with a Mazzer who I can harass regularly :), with the finer and more consistent grind its been much better. Unfortunately (for the budget that is) I think a grinder upgrade would go at least part of the way toward finding the 25-20 sec sweet spot



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