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Thread: 2 different pours from the same grind

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    NW London, UK

    2 different pours from the same grind

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Right. I put roughly 36grams into the superjolly, grind, pull a double with 18grams in lets say for arguments sake 25 seconds. Next, loose the puck, wipe and dry the inside of the portafilter load it with the other 18grams and this time with the same tamp pressure it takes say 15 seconds for a double. Why would the same grind and tamp pressure be so different from the first? Would it be because the inside of the portafilter is wet making the liquid flow more quickly or another reason I havent thought of.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Re: 2 different pours from the same grind

    it might be bc the second dose contains grinds that are in fact coarser than the first dose. the grinds in the second dose had no beans on top of them to weigh them down and help them into the grinder blades, so the result is a faster pour from the final grinds.
    1. pour one shot at a time with one shot worth of beans in throat of grinder
    2. have lets say 4+ shots worth or beans sitting in the hopper and then pull your two shots

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006

    Re: 2 different pours from the same grind

    In answer to your question about the wet basket, not likely that has much to do with it.

    When you say total ground was "roughly 36grams" and then 18grams per shot, did you measure what went into the basket with suitable electronsic scales?
    And the timing of the pours "... in lets say for arguments sake 25 seconds.", did you time it with a stopwatch or timer?

    Most likely is that the dose size is not as even as you had hoped if you didnt measure what went into the basket..(I am now more aware of this since I got some scales to measure my dosing, is harder than most of us think to get accurate repeatable doses, cos sometime as much as a few tenths of a gram can make significant difference).
    Assuming your SuperJolly has a functioning doser, it is possible that the doeser on the grinder is not working as well as it should, it is also possible there is some variationin in grind size in the last part of the grinding as noted above. It is also possible that the timing may not be quite as different if you measure it more accurately, (although I often just count in my head).
    Hopefully someone with experience of these grinders can help a bit more with this.
    Also not sure about how the Duetto works (and this is unlikely) but on some machines you can also have slight water deficit in the brew path after the machine warms up, or has been on for a while, which means first shot can take a bit longer due to the machine having to first make up the water deficit, if you dont flush the brew path just before pulling the shot. The second shot immediately after would not have the same issue and would appear to pour quicker.

  4. #4
    Senior Member summercrema's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Re: 2 different pours from the same grind

    I think the Breville Smart grinder might be of help here, someone told me it can measure quite close to how much coffee ends up in the filter basket, no more guessing. I hope that is true, not measuring by time rather by weight.

  5. #5
    Senior Member trentski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Altona, Melbourne

    Re: 2 different pours from the same grind

    Your scenario as described is no where near scientifically accurate enough to make any valid comparisons between the two shots.

    I find it very hard to believe that you put 36 grams worth of beans in the hopper and got two 18 gram baskets worth of ground coffee out the doser for a start ;)

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011

    Re: 2 different pours from the same grind

    we have 2 mazzer roburs at work, one manual, one "e" and a manual superjolly. we start to see inconsistency in pour in the manual robur once the tip of the cone inside the hopper becomes visible, and on the e grinder as early as the hopper being about 2 thirds full. i would say that the greater variation in the e is becuase you remove a variable with the timed dose, and as a result any variation in grind due to a lesser weight of beans on the burrs shows up directly as a change in dose in the basket, or rate of pour. even with the manual robur, we are constantly adjusting the grind as the level in the hopper drops, until its time to fill the hopper again, and then another adjustment is needed. this would be the same in any burr grinder, regardless of size. personaly i would say that with 36 grams of beans in the hopper, there will be an inconsistency in grind in even your first shot, let alone your second, my recomendation, fill your hopper, and when your done, close the shute, get what beans you can out of the chamber before the burrs, and accept a little bit of waste for the greater good of your shots.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Zaneus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010

    Re: 2 different pours from the same grind

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Either youre distribution and tamp is bad causing channelling or whatever dosing method youre using is bad.

    If youre using an automatic dosing method you really need a decent amount of beans in the hopper. Automatic dosing methods should only be used in a retail environment where time is a real issue. At home its better in every way to do things manually. Grab yourself a cheap .1 gram scale from ebay. They can go for around $5. Start weighing every shot.

    @summercrema; the smart grinder is only accurate to about +/-1 gram even with a full bean hopper. This isnt really good enough for espresso. However its nice to have it grind out a rough amount for you. Then you weigh it and adjust the dose accordingly. ;)

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