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Thread: First extraction of the day no good

  1. #1
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    First extraction of the day no good

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi Coffeesnobs

    I have a Rocket Giotto Premium Plus and a Compak K3 grinder. Just wondering why my first extraction of the day is never real good? Most of the time I do one extraction and throw it out, and from there on the extractions are fine..

    I heat the machine for at least 40 minutes with group handle on. Also, I backflush every evening. Does anyone else have this problem? :-?

  2. #2
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E435656471013220 link=1316140328/0#0 date=1316140328
    Just wondering why my first extraction of the day is never real good?* ..... Does anyone else have this problem?* :-?
    Nope. I usually only make one coffee using my machine on weekdays.

    My first thought is are you removing old grounds before grinding for your first shot? I recommend you try dumping the first 5 grams of grinds and then grind and dose as usual.

    Oh and welcome to CoffeeSnobs

  3. #3
    Senior Member specialpants's Avatar
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    When you say back flush, are you just referring to a water back flush? Or a chemical back flush?

    If its a chemical back flush, then you should always do a seasoning shot - this really does coat the e61 group head with the coffee oils and stuff.

    In addition to that, what sort of ground beans are being used for the first shot? Is it the left overs from the previous session, or is it freshly ground beans?

    If youre using grounds from the previous session, then you can try purging the grinder for a few seconds and throwing away anything thats in the doser.

    FWIW, my first shot is pretty good in my opinion and theres no need to throw it out (im also using a naked portafilter which could be a contributing factor to this)

  4. #4
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    Do you do a cooling flush before the first shot at all?

    I assume the giotto is a HX machine (I think they used to be?)

    the first shot that you bin might be doing just enough to account for a cooling flush of the system

  5. #5
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    Thank you for your replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A697C7A7078756978776D6A190 link=1316140328/2#2 date=1316142830
    If its a chemical back flush, then you should always do a seasoning shot - this really does coat the e61 group head with the coffee oils and stuff.
    Its only a water back flush that I do daily.* I just find that once the e61 group head has a coating, the pour is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by 69716B766A6D607B7670190 link=1316140328/3#3 date=1316146008
    Do you do a cooling flush before the first shot at all?

    I assume the giotto is a HX machine (I think they used to be?)
    Yes the Giotto is a HX machine, and I always do a cooling flush for a few seconds prior to the first shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6A697C7A7078756978776D6A190 link=1316140328/2#2 date=1316142830
    In addition to that, what sort of ground beans are being used for the first shot? Is it the left overs from the previous session, or is it freshly ground beans?

    If youre using grounds from the previous session, then you can try purging the grinder for a few seconds and throwing away anything thats in the doser.
    I always used freshly ground beans, but maybe I should grind off a little before I fill the portafilter.* I will give it a try..* * :)





  6. #6
    Senior Member specialpants's Avatar
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    See how you go with purging the grinder.

    If its not that, it could be that the oils and flavours of the first shot is actually coating the portafilter instead of landing into the cup. You might be able to confirm this if youve got access to a naked handle.

    I find that the group head itself always has a coating of oils unless its just been through a chemical back flush. You might have discovered the same when youve wiped the area behind the shower screen.

  7. #7
    Bean Powered Member jaybee's Avatar
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    I have had this and it seemed to happen if I happend to get the hottest part of the natural boiler cycle. I take a little more care with the cooling flush to make sure that it is long enough - If there is spitting or excessive steam, just let it pour even of it takes 10 or 20 seconds, water is cheap!

    Like you say, after the first pour it is perfect every time.

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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    Quote Originally Posted by 494A5F59535B564A5B544E493A0 link=1316140328/5#5 date=1316152714
    See how you go with purging the grinder.
    The pour was much better this morning.. I ground off about 1/4 of the single portafilter, emptied it and then refilled.

    Quote Originally Posted by 505B43585F5F3A0 link=1316140328/6#6 date=1316182270
    I have had this and it seemed to happen if I happend to get the hottest part of the natural boiler cycle. I take a little more care with the cooling flush to make sure that it is long enough - If there is spitting or excessive steam, just let it pour even of it takes 10 or 20 seconds, water is cheap!
    Yes, I will take more time doing a cooling flush, and hopefully the end result will be better. Will keep you all posted. :D

  9. #9
    Senior Member flynnaus's Avatar
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    Quote Originally Posted by 18352020316665540 link=1316140328/7#7 date=1316245041
    Yes, I will take more time doing a cooling flush
    I dont* do cooling flushes. The Giotto Premium Plus has a commercial grade pressurestat and is very temperature stable.

    The fact that only your first shot was dodgy and you noticed an improvement after purging your grinder suggests that could be the answer. Perhaps you need to dump more than a couple of grams.

    Other K3T owners may have a tip if you search CS or ask a question on the Grinder section.

  10. #10
    Mal Dimal's Avatar
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    Something that I long suspected and can now verify with the Diadema DB, is that different beans, blends, age post-roast, etc can all require a different Brew Water Temperature to extract the best from them.

    Have discovered that some beans/blends are best at a Brew Temp. up as high as 96deg.C and others down as low as 90deg.C; it is all very enlightening. Have also found that as beans start to fall off their peak flavour plateaux, the Brew Temp. needs to be gradually lowered over time until the beans are used up. Definitely helps to get the best from every bean down to the last drop... 8-)

    You can probably approximate this by varying the length/volume of your Cooling Flushes on a HX machine, via trial and error or by fitting one of Erics Group Thermometers (for E-61 machines) to help get on target more reliably. Really is worth experimenting with your own particular setup.... :)

    Mal.

  11. #11
    Senior Member askthecoffeeguy's Avatar
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    Re: First extraction of the day no good

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    I find it can often take a while to dial in the first shot of the day - especially if its been cool over night, as the beans need a little waking up in the morning

    At work I often wind out the grind setting a little at the end of the day to accommodate a coarser setting for the following morning, or else I adjust the grinder (at home as well) first thing in the morning before running any shots

    Besides, in a commercial environment at least its always a good idea to run a few sink shots first thing in the morning just to season the portafilter, and to see how everything is pouring...



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