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Thread: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

  1. #1
    Senior Member dr.a.j.pickering's Avatar
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    7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    after a recent post I was Thinking what are they????

    I will Start it of with the obvious.

    1) Stale Coffee (to include stale beans and all pre ground)
    2)....
    3)....
    4)....
    5)....
    6)....
    7)....

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    What fun!

    Somehow I dont think this list can ever be limited to 7, but here are my pet peeves.

    2. dirty coffee machines churning out nasty coffee
    3. anything associated with the word EXPRESSO

    :D

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Anyone who says frothing the milk or foaming the milk. >:(

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 51726F7873677C1D0 link=1316657680/2#2 date=1316658363
    Anyone who says frothing the milk or foaming the milk.* >:(
    Not sure about this one being a sin!

  5. #5
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Extracting a shot until it almost runs clear, like some cafes still do.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 3625233A3639570 link=1316657680/4#4 date=1316659475
    Extracting a shot until it almost runs clear, like some cafes still do.
    Yeah, or how about sweezing out another shot from a used puck!

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    Senior Member Coffee2Di4's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    A steam wand that obviously doesnt get cleaned with any sort of regularity due to the build up of burned milk over at least days - an immediate walk out of a cafe for me.

    Cheers
    Di

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    Senior Member Pavoniboy's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Boiling the milk.

  9. #9
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Adding fresh milk to a jug with used milk and reusing it.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    running extra water through the puck to make a "long black" (ie, filling up the cup from the overextraction)

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    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 1B3622303F3E3930162311362332570 link=1316657680/9#9 date=1316663608
    running extra water through the puck to make a "long black" (ie, filling up the cup from the overextraction)
    Isnt this an actual "drink" in some parts of the world? Yuk!

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    oh yeah.... i completely forgot to mention Cuppachino and Muggachino, and their overentitled lovechild Babychino ;D

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    Senior Member Stan's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Serving alleged coffee in a dirty cup

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Adding milk to a shot of espresso coffee.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B657C6C5641667C7A6C090 link=1316657680/13#13 date=1316682489
    Adding milk to a shot of espresso coffee.
    I add cream to my espresso granita... not a sin I hope ^^
    Using the built-in tamper on the grinder to tamp
    Running a single shot then another for strong *shudders*

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 20366A256A2E6A342D272F21362D2A23440 link=1316657680/0#0 date=1316657680
    Stale Coffee (to include stale beans and all pre ground)
    To which must be added the dreaded "full doser in the empty cafe syndrome.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 724952210 link=1316657680/8#8 date=1316661709
    Adding fresh milk to a jug with used milk and reusing it.
    I regularly do this when taking over from someone. And when youre working in a cafe that isnt serving speciality coffee, its just too expensive (especially in NZ) to do, and expect, otherwise.

    A complete reheating of milk though is a big sin in my books, but so long as its split with more than 50% cold milk - its tolerable.

    Best solution is to train baristas to not overfill :D

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 7F7366666B7664120 link=1316657680/16#16 date=1316686277
    Quote Originally Posted by 724952210 link=1316657680/8#8 date=1316661709
    Adding fresh milk to a jug with used milk and reusing it.
    I regularly do this when taking over from someone. And when youre working in a cafe that isnt serving speciality coffee, its just too expensive (especially in NZ) to do, and expect, otherwise.

    A complete reheating of milk though is a big sin in my books, but so long as its split with more than 50% cold milk - its tolerable.

    Best solution is to train baristas to not overfill* :D
    And there is the answer. Dont over fill the jug. Any half decent barista should have a pretty good idea of how much milk goes in to the average coffee. Im sorry, but there is no excuse for bad coffee. 50% fresh still means 50% old and subsequently an inferior coffee.

    A cafe owner should train staff properly. That way the financial loss incurred due to wastage will become negligible. In fact, the cafe will get a name for serving consistently good coffee and thrive.
    ;)




  19. #19
    Senior Member Zaneus's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    when taking over for someone i usually split the old milk into several jugs, or keep the old milk in one jug and pour a small bit into each jug of milk i texture. Only a small amount. That way it cuts down on waste but doesnt affect the quality of the drink.

    I think weve missed sin #1. Thou shalt not drink instant.

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    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Would you go to a restaurant and think it ok if you were served just a little bit of someone elses left overs?

    I think reusing milk, no matter what the ratio, is disgusting.

  21. #21
    Senior Member dr.a.j.pickering's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    I am worried if the barrista (sorry I mean bloke making the coffee) dosnt know how much milk goes in the coffee on order then he should get some else to make the coffee,

    what was his plan heat a galon of milk and wait for the orders to come in

    Where was his last job starbucks

    Come to think about it....

    1) Stale Coffee (to include stale beans and all pre ground and full doser)
    2)Starbucks
    3)....
    4)....
    5)....
    6)....
    7)....

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    how about adding sugar to some real coffee?

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Forgive me, BeanBay, for I have sinned - I have sugar in my coffee every time! [smiley=evil.gif]

    This isnt a sin, its a preference based on your tastebuds...personally, I dont enjoy a coffee as much if it isnt sweetened to my liking.

    And yes, in the four years Ive been on CoffeeSnobs, everyone has tried to break my habit unsuccessfully. I just have a sweet tooth!

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 684F594B53200 link=1316657680/22#22 date=1316768867
    I have sugar in my coffee every time!* *

    This isnt a sin, its a preference based on your tastebuds

    No. Its a sin, repent or ye shall burn in hell.

    Then again, many of the best people I have met have been self-confessed sinners and the less said about some of the holier than thou the better.

    The important thing is that you add the right amount to make it the best cup (for you) for each separate bean/brew method.

    People that always add a set amount of sugar/salt to everything they are given, without tasting, are missing out on so many opportunities to find out what they REALLY enjoy.

    If someone tries something and then decides it would be improved by addition of a teaspoon of product X, fair enough. I do it with chilli sauce and many people think that is odd, but it certainly improves chocolate espresso muffins IMHO.




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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Agreed about the tasting before you add (well, when Im out, anyway).

    You can always measure the amount that I respect/admire a CSer by the fact that I will try their coffee first without sugar and add how little/much I need from there.

    You will always know that I really, really respect & admire them if I then go on and drink the rest of the coffee without adding sugar. I wont say I particularly enjoy the coffee as much as I could, but I dont want to offend them by adding sugar. :)

    I went down to Dennis grand opening a couple of years back and didnt add any sugar to the two or three cups I had that day at all. But that was mainly because hes a cranky old bugger and would have kicked me out of his shop! ;D Love ya, Den!

  26. #26
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 486F796B73000 link=1316657680/24#24 date=1316777989
    I went down to Dennis grand opening a couple of years back and didnt add any sugar to the two or three cups I had that day at all. But that was mainly because hes a cranky old bugger and would have kicked me out of his shop! Grin Love ya, Den!
    Di, I think sugar has been added to coffee since the 16th century. You are welcome to have as much as you need or want. Bloody Primadonna! Love ya, Di! ;D

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    interesting point at adding to taste, never thought of it that way, so used to people destroying a good coffee by absolutely overloading it with sugar

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 10313A3A3D27540 link=1316657680/19#19 date=1316751159
    Would you go to a restaurant and think it ok if you were served just a little bit of someone elses left overs?
    ...an apt comparison.* ::)

    Quote Originally Posted by 30267A357A3E7A243D373F31263D3A33540 link=1316657680/20#20 date=1316762838
    what was his plan heat a galon of milk and wait for the orders to come in
    Yes. You got it. Thats EXACTLY what people aim to do.

    You seem to have my point misunderstood, Im talking <70mL of milk here. Its quite common for inexperienced baristas to overstretch or overfill when its hectic, and it is much better practice to be sympathetic (and/or empathetic).

    Also, judging by the majority of the posts on this forum, it would seem that overfilling a jug by 50mL in a commercial setting would be the least of some peoples concerns...


    Quote Originally Posted by 7179777F7D67677B777F140 link=1316657680/23#23 date=1316777411
    Quote Originally Posted by 684F594B53200 link=1316657680/22#22 date=1316768867
    I have sugar in my coffee every time!* *

    This isnt a sin, its a preference based on your tastebuds
    Then again, many of the best people I have met have been self-confessed sinners and the less said about some of the holier than thou the better.

    The important thing is that you add the right amount to make it the best cup (for you) for each separate bean/brew method.

    People that always add a set amount of sugar/salt to everything they are given, without tasting, are missing out on so many opportunities to find out what they REALLY enjoy.
    +1 to everything. Its about the final cup for the person, not what theyre told it should be.

  29. #29
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 676B7E7E736E7C0A0 link=1316657680/16#16 date=1316686277
    Best solution is to train baristas to not overfill
    As already said its not hard to start with the right amount of milk.

    Quote Originally Posted by 42657361790A0 link=1316657680/22#22 date=1316768867
    And yes, in the four years Ive been on CoffeeSnobs, everyone has tried to break my habit unsuccessfully. I just have a sweet tooth!
    You talking espresso or do you drink milked coffees?



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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 16373C3C3B21520 link=1316657680/19#19 date=1316751159
    Would you go to a restaurant and think it ok if you were served just a little bit of someone elses left overs?

    I think reusing milk, no matter what the ratio, is disgusting.*
    I agree about re-steaming milk. Its just poor barista skill and lazy.

    But the restaurant analogy is not right. Re-steamed milk aint really leftovers. ;)

    I think having the correct sized jugs is the biggest contributing factor. Get the right size jug for the cup/drink, fill it correctly and its hard to go too wrong.

    Jugs are a small cost it the scheme of things.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 606B6E6E7B606D6E6D6C71696B020 link=1316657680/29#29 date=1316837612
    Re-steamed milk aint really leftovers.
    Hmm....Its leftover from a previous use- just never served. If it was a steak or an omelette, its been cooked before and then reheated to serve.

    Yes to the right jug size and then a little practise. ;)

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Latte All the Way, TG! :D

    I take a sip of a shot before I add the milk, particularly if its a new bean that Im trying to taste its true flavour, but I find the taste of pure espresso far too intense. To me, its like drinking port - a sip is usually enough.

    Heh, Ill never be a competition judge, that I know! ;)

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 1C3B2D3F27540 link=1316657680/31#31 date=1316841739
    Latte All the Way, TG!
    In that case I need to make you one sometime to see how much sugar youll need.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Hmm... In so far as Im aware reheating milk of any description in a commercial environment (in Australia at least) is a breach of the Food Safety Standards act and is punishable as such

    Something that has helped me tremendously in this regard is that I count off the actual amount of milk that I need for the number of coffees Im making as in one caffee latte dine in, qnd two to go and after a days work on the machine I might have 600ml wastage as measured in a jug which I pour my residual milk into - which is surely an acceptable amount of wastage in any commecial environment?

    Pet hates for me also include not purging the group head prior to extraction and not wiping out the basket prior to dosing with a clean, dry cloth ::)

  35. #35
    Senior Member Dennis's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 46544C534F4244484141424240525E270 link=1316657680/33#33 date=1316869947
    Hmm... In so far as Im aware reheating milk of any description in a commercial environment (in Australia at least) is a breach of the Food Safety Standards act and is punishable as such
    Its permissable, though there are conditions as to how.

    http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/Cool%20_and_reheat_food.pdf

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    My personal pet peeve:


    When people dont respect the passion and skill which goes into making consistently great coffee.

    This is both in forms of the customer side and the staff side.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    neither purging the group, or wiping the basket before dosing a shot, and placing the pf into the group and not begining the extraction imediately.

    And what i believe is the single greatest of the many coffee sins, people continuing to purchase coffee from establishments that commit 1 or all of the sins listed in this thread on a regular basis. this is i believe the reason why it still happens everyday, everywhere.

  38. #38
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 322132252E663B22212422570 link=1316657680/35#35 date=1316914619
    My personal pet peeve:


    When people dont respect the passion and skill which goes into making consistently great coffee.

    This is both in forms of the customer side and the staff side.
    that is one of my dislikes as well. the amount of times i hear "its just coffee" makes me cringe. but the pluses far outweigh that. For instance, i cant stop smiling for at least an hour when i see a customer take a photo of a coffee ive made them and they drink every last bit. really makes it worth it.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 2E2037372C2B450 link=1316657680/36#36 date=1316915773
    neither purging the group, or wiping the basket before dosing a shot, and placing the pf into the group and not begining the extraction imediately.
    Sorry for being obtuse, but why is not purging a sin? Doesnt it all depend on your machines temp stability?

    Apparently theres no point to purge a Double Boiler setup like say, the BDB...

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 4B6672606F6E6960467341667362070 link=1316657680/38#38 date=1316955968
    Sorry for being obtuse, but why is not purging a sin? Doesnt it all depend on your machines temp stability?

    By purging they mean activating the group to rinse the spent coffee which remains on the screen, not in order to lower the brew temperature.

  41. #41
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    16oz & 20oz cups.
    Deadly sin right there

  42. #42
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 1E392F3D25560 link=1316657680/22#22 date=1316768867
    Forgive me, BeanBay, for I have sinned - I have sugar in my coffee every time!* *

    This isnt a sin, its a preference based on your tastebuds...personally, I dont enjoy a coffee as much if it isnt sweetened to my liking.
    While I drink my coffee mainly in espresso or long black form, and do not use sugar or milk, I find it not a sin to use sugar in coffee. In fact, if we venture out to Italy, the birth place of the espresso machine, we find many Italians sweetening their Espresso with sugar.

    One could argue the truest form of coffee is pure unadulterated black coffee with no milk or sugar. To quote Henry Ford, "The can have any color they want as long as its black".

    Coffee needs to be enjoyed the way you like it. It just needs to be made properly and served fresh. And it needs to be coffee. Not a muggachino or whatever they call those buckets of slightly brownish liquid.

    Come to think of it, then there is the flavored varieties of coffee. You know, those vanilla or cinnamon varieties. At cafes they sometimes add syrups to them. Yuk!* [smiley=huh.gif]

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 6B4652404F4E4940665361465342270 link=1316657680/38#38 date=1316955968
    Quote Originally Posted by 2E2037372C2B450 link=1316657680/36#36 date=1316915773
    neither purging the group, or wiping the basket before dosing a shot, and placing the pf into the group and not begining the extraction imediately.
    Sorry for being obtuse, but why is not purging a sin? Doesnt it all depend on your machines temp stability?

    Apparently theres no point to purge a Double Boiler setup like say, the BDB...
    Its fine if you want a little bit of dirty tasting water going into your extraction.

  44. #44
    Senior Member artman's Avatar
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    I normally purge after removing the PF, while any gunk is still "fresh", and again prior to a shot. The water that comes out is definitely not clean.

    Cheers

  45. #45
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Asking the Barista/Service person to make the coffee (always milk-based) "really hot".

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    How about leaving the pf sitting on the drip tray, thats go to be up the top.

  47. #47
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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Offering two sizes of cappuccino - small (ie normal) and large.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 69545850423B0 link=1316657680/44#44 date=1317038643
    Asking the Barista/Service person to make the coffee (always milk-based) "really hot".
    Ive been asked to microwave a customers long black before because they like i "really hot"

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Quote Originally Posted by 2B202C2432272D242C282F26410 link=1316657680/47#47 date=1317124161
    Quote Originally Posted by 69545850423B0 link=1316657680/44#44 date=1317038643
    Asking the Barista/Service person to make the coffee (always milk-based) "really hot".
    Ive been asked to microwave a customers long black before because they like i "really hot"

    Hilarious!

    Usually when someone asks for extra hot I will ask the customer about it. Sometimes its just what they are used to, sometimes they have had a bad lukewarm coffee beofre and want to avoid the experience.* Most of the time I can engage them and we can end up make them a good brew without overdoing the milk.* *

    But some people are crazy for that hot feeling in their mouth when they have a coffee. They dont care that the milk has got no sweetness and body.* They dont even care for the coffee taste - they simply want to feel the burn.* Each to their own.

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    Re: 7 Deadly sins of COFFEE

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 172C332B2631430 link=1316657680/48#48 date=1317286323
    But some people are crazy for that hot feeling in their mouth when they have a coffee.
    Ive been in a cafe where the order was for an extra hot SOY latte. After explaining that soy boils at a lower temp than milk, the order stayed the same.
    The order was served, and complaint made that it had curdled.
    With a look of "I told you so" from me, the solution from the customer and barista (owner/roaster of cafe named in top 5 in Brisbane mind you) settled on a normal soy with hot water on the side.

    Happy customer, helpful barista



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