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Thread: Pod Snob?

  1. #1
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    Pod Snob?

    Gene Cafe Coffee Roaster $850 - Free Beans Free Freight
    Hi all,

    I heard an advert on the radio today from George Gregan touting his new home espresso system. "Best espresso system he has ever seen etc etc". Considering he runs a few cafes I thought it sounded interesting and was lilely to be a decent machine so I jumped on the Mokador website (mokadordirect.com.au) to have a look..... couldnt believe my eyes &*^% pod system! I immediately lost interest, but since I havent tried pod coffee am I jumping to conclusions here? Aside from the obvious concerns regarding freshness and blend options what sort of coffee does a pod system produce? The machine is a twin boiler retaining at $800.

    My feeling is that if he thinks a pod system is the best he has ever seen (no mention of best he has ever tasted) Im not going to rush to one of his cafes!!. Ur thoughts?

    Cheers,

    Matt

  2. #2
    CoffeeSnobs Owner Andy's Avatar
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Who is George Gregan? (does he have a neck?) ;)

    alas that would be off-topic so Ill type about pods...

    A customer of ours has been selling pod machines for a couple of years, they have a huge collection of different pods to try )mostly Nestle from memory) and while I initialy poo-pooed the idea I have had a few coffees there and they were quite errr... ummm... good really.

    Not as good as mine (or yours, or any CSr) but much better than the nasty cafe, takeaway shop or instant from a rusty urn.

    Is it espresso? Not really.
    Is there enough coffee in a pod? Not for my taste.
    Is it drinkable? Yep.
    ...and its a "clean" system that suits most office/home spaces.

    If you get the chance, try a pod coffee but dont expect to want to swap even a $100 espresso machine for a pod system.


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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Ahh yes, pods.....

    Its marketing chaps, not coffee. Its a way of tying the client to the coffee supplier, who is the one that is trying to tie you up by offering you either a "free" machine or a "subsidised price" machine to use the pods in conjunction with.

    Mostly manufactured to specific shape so you can only use "that" pod with "that" machine, and no one elses.

    Most pods that come out from the european market are too small for Oz conditions (6-7 ish grams per portion);

    Stale coffee, many times having a high proportion of robusta that gives that very characteristic flavour that you either like or you dont, and, many times having a very odd smell (the pod) from the old coffee oil absorbing into the blotting paper material the pod is made of....

    Marketing...not coffee, and if you check the price of some of the "deals"....for example, $75.00 for a carton of pods, containing 150 pods...thats basically $75.00 per kilo, for stale, under dosed coffee with high proprtions of robusta contained.....!

    Under these conditions, why support the roasted coffee / pod industry of another country?

    And all that, in order to get a subsidised price on a coffee machine. Idruther buy my own coffee machine, pay top dollar for it, get the one I want, and buy fresh coffee from whom I want.

    Buy fresh, be parochial, support local.

    nuf said!

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Agree, FC, Krupps, I think, has a pod machine as well. Why tie yourself to a limited range of coffee from limited suppliers? The costs also make it uneconomic as grinding your own even from supermarket beans is far cheaper. Obviously, the pods could not have been roasted and ground just days ago, either -- another point against such a system.

    The only appeal would be to someone too lazy to fill and tamp. And such people are obviously not worthy of the mantle of coffee snob.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    The usual arguments put forward by the purveyors of the pod system, are:

    a) accurate portion control and
    b) no mess.

    Trouble is, these are secondary features to the real truth which is covered in my post above...and some resulting cuppas made from the pods of various suppliers are simply disgusting to the palate and when youre stuck with them...youre stuck with them.

    But by golly, you have accurate portion control and a clean coffee "station". ;D

    Regardz,
    FC.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    But isnt it a dual purpose machine? You can use coffee pods, or buy round Tetley tea bags and have a tea machine.

    You see them advertising the Senseo a lot on morning tv programs like GMA or Kerri-Anne. They give you a "variety," three different roasts, medium, dark, and for you (insert name here), extra dark. The Senseo doesnt have a milk frother btw.

    Its definitely targeting those who dont know much about coffee, and think, "wow! I can make commercial grade coffee at home, at the touch of a button. Youre probably better off buying a super auto, because in the long run, youll save money on beans alone.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    I think youll find that these machines are really marketed in the way that mobile phones and ink-jet printers often are. *Its *about locking you into a regular purchase - the hardware is often subsidised to get you in. *They make their money from people getting pods or cartridges or top-ups (or whatever) on a weekly or monthly basis. *If they gave these things away for free, like phones, theyd make their profit from the consumables.

    Speaking of which, Officeworks *sells 1 kg (resealable) tins of Nescafe for $39.98. *Makes even the most expensive green beans seem ridiculously cheap. *And yes - we coffee snobs are paying less for coffee than the average mugachino sculler.

    http://officeworks.com.au/SHOP/CATALOG/SKU.ASP?ID=NE430&LEVEL=SK&PR=*&SID=AP54CWEM43K58GH QV2TB46DGD29GCSTA

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Ah well, its good to see my snobbery is somewhat justified. The whole marketing bit makes sense as Mr Gregan seems to be tied up very nicely with Mokador through his cafes and they are selling pod machines on TV. So he appears to be in it for the $$$$ and not to enlighten the masses about the best way to have coffee * >:( *Bit like Ugly Dave Grey and nasal sprays eh? *:o *

    Really, for $300 more than the pod system you can buy a Silvia and a bloody good grinder. Not as convenient tho, but much more enjoyable.




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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by el espressio link=1127816102/0#6 date=1127869577
    I think youll find that these machines are really marketed in the way that mobile phones and ink-jet printers often are. *Its *about locking you into a regular purchase - the hardware is often subsidised to get you in

    Dont get me started on printer ink cartridges, El Espressio. *How can any company -- I wont mention Brother -- justify $18 for a few millilitres of ink.... On a printer which spends its time self-cleaning (read: wasting ink) with same expensive ink. *Generic ink costs a fraction of the price as branded one, but it absolutely destroys your printer head. Er, thats what the printer makers anxious to protect their ink markets tell us. But guess what? *The print heads dont last anyway!

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Gday all,
    I just checked this website out, its gold. ;D
    Along with The Gregan, you can also buy a battery powered, yes battery powered, chocolate shaker. Never again will you have to waste your wrist power shaking chocolate all over your beverage. *
    The site says that it will impress your friends and that you can use it to put pretty patterns, such as a smiley face, a flower or a heart on top of your Late. *:-?
    If you really, really want to impress your friends, you can email the battery powered chocolate shaker factory and request a specially designed pattern for your shaker. *I wonder if they would do a CS design? ;)
    All the best,
    Steve.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fresh_Coffee link=1127816102/0#2 date=1127860693
    Mostly manufactured to specific shape so you can only use "that" pod with "that" machine, and no one elses.
    Yeah! That would be like espresso machines having different size portafilters and baskets and...

    Sorry, couldnt resist. Reminds me of someone flogging department store sunbeam machines as good gear.

    Cheers

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    I still think its an overpriced tea machine.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7E4A5D4B50677B575E5E5D5D380 link=1127816102/2#2 date=1127860693

    Most pods that come out from the european market are too small for Oz conditions (6-7 ish grams per portion);

    Stale coffee, many times having a high proportion of robusta that gives that very characteristic flavour that you either like or you dont, and, many times having a very odd smell (the pod) from the old coffee oil absorbing into the blotting paper material the pod is made of....

    Marketing...not coffee, and if you check the price of some of the "deals"....for example, $75.00 for a carton of pods, containing 150 pods...thats basically $75.00 per kilo, for stale, under dosed coffee with high proprtions of robusta contained.....!
    Ok I know that there are some criticisms of the pod system, but if you are going to be a coffee snob, at least get your facts straight first....

    Firstly "Oz Conditions" are the exception to the rule. We are in a "Milk Market" which is more or less a wanna-be coffee culture. If I went to a good coffee house in europe and asked for some of the drinks we serve here, I would be laughed out the door.... Much to the surprise of some aussies, espresso was never meant to be consumed by the litre.

    Secondly, the coffee from Nespresso can potentially go stale (like any system), but its hermetically sealed so unless there is some defect in the particular pod, you will be fine for at least six months (though they claim 12 months, 6 months to be safe).

    Robusta - some of the blends have robusta, some dont. Its up to the individual to decide which one suits. So thats just about personal taste. The pursuit of pure arabica is not going to cover all tastes.

    If you really doubt what I am telling you, I can only suggest a blind taste test against an average metropolitan coffee shop (since thats what the system is designed to beat). Considering the average skill of coffee shop staff, you might agree that theres room for competition :)

    I honestly think the Nespresso system is good for the interests of coffee generally, as it more or less sets a benchmark for amateurs and makes decent espresso available.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 445C4D44485B5D290 link=1127816102/12#12 date=1260788680
    I honestly think the Nespresso system is good for the interests of coffee generally, as it more or less sets a benchmark for amateurs and makes decent espresso available.
    Ahh...a thread from the archives...

    ;D...or more correctly, good for the interests of Nestle in general...

    Yes mudmart...perhaps its some sort of 10% better than instant, but I regret to inform that you are preaching to the converted here and Id rather give up coffee for good than drink their swill....

    Offer any Nescafe product- whether they put it in jar or pod to a line of CSers and the sucker who has to drink it will be the one who was daydreaming. The rest of the line would take one rapid step to the rear *:D

    Sorry, but I have one useful suggestion as to where pods are best placed and btw, how long have you been working for Nestle? *:-?

    2mcm

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A52434A465553270 link=1127816102/12#12 date=1260788680
    I honestly think the Nespresso system is good for the interests of coffee generally, as it more or less sets a benchmark for amateurs and makes decent espresso available.
    Just like daytime soap operas can fill the void for those who dont want to go to the theatre, or Spam in the can as a substitute for Ham. 2mcm, Im with you!

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 756D7C75796A6C180 link=1127816102/12#12 date=1260788680
    Ok I know that there are some criticisms of the pod system, but if you are going to be a coffee snob, at least get your facts straight first....
    Thems fightin words.

    Funny how mudmart made 1 post and vanished yet were all still here.
    Whos a wanna-be now?

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Yeah....

    The only decent thing to come out of a pod, is Vanilla ;)

    Mal.

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    I cant believe what Im reading - all this negativity!

    Dont you people know that George Clooney reckons pods are the best way to get top-notch coffee. George Clooney People! hes from Holywood and all - so he definately knows a good cuppa....... ::)

    OK, I cant even keep typing this with a straight face any more

  19. #19
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4D7268787E697A1B0 link=1127816102/17#17 date=1260797201
    OK, I cant even keep typing this with a straight face any more
    I should hope not.... ;D

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6D75646D617274000 link=1127816102/12#12 date=1260788680
    Fresh_Coffee wrote on Sep 28th, 2005, 8:38am:


    Stale coffee, many times having a high proportion of robusta that gives that very characteristic flavour that you either like or you dont, and, many times having a very odd smell (the pod) from the old coffee oil absorbing into the blotting paper material the pod is made of....

    Marketing...not coffee, and if you check the price of some of the "deals"....for example, $75.00 for a carton of pods, containing 150 pods...thats basically $75.00 per kilo, for stale, under dosed coffee with high proprtions of robusta contained.....!


    Ok I know that there are some criticisms of the pod system, but if you are going to be a coffee snob, at least get your facts straight first....

    Secondly, the coffee from Nespresso can potentially go stale (like any system), but its hermetically sealed so unless there is some defect in the particular pod, you will be fine for at least six months (though they claim 12 months, 6 months to be safe).
    Delicious: a 4 year old thread dug up to to make a point about freshness!

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    ^^^ oh snap! ;D

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 0A27232F224E0 link=1127816102/16#16 date=1260795470
    Yeah....

    The only decent thing to come out of a pod, is Vanilla ;)

    Mal.
    Steady on Mal, what about peas? ;)

  23. #23
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3C24353C302325510 link=1127816102/12#12 date=1260788680
    Quote Originally Posted by 7E4A5D4B50677B575E5E5D5D380 link=1127816102/2#2 date=1127860693

    Most pods that come out from the european market are too small for Oz conditions (6-7 ish grams per portion);

    Stale coffee, many times having a high proportion of robusta that gives that very characteristic flavour that you either like or you dont, and, many times having a very odd smell (the pod) from the old coffee oil absorbing into the blotting paper material the pod is made of....

    Marketing...not coffee, and if you check the price of some of the "deals"....for example, $75.00 for a carton of pods, containing 150 pods...thats basically $75.00 per kilo, for stale, under dosed coffee with high proprtions of robusta contained.....!
    Ok I know that there are some criticisms of the pod system, but if you are going to be a coffee snob, at least get your facts straight first....

    Firstly "Oz Conditions" are the exception to the rule. We are in a "Milk Market" which is more or less a wanna-be coffee culture. If I went to a good coffee house in europe and asked for some of the drinks we serve here, I would be laughed out the door.... Much to the surprise of some aussies, espresso was never meant to be consumed by the litre.

    Secondly, the coffee from Nespresso can potentially go stale (like any system), but its hermetically sealed so unless there is some defect in the particular pod, you will be fine for at least six months (though they claim 12 months, 6 months to be safe).

    Robusta - some of the blends have robusta, some dont. Its up to the individual to decide which one suits. So thats just about personal taste. The pursuit of pure arabica is not going to cover all tastes.

    If you really doubt what I am telling you, I can only suggest a blind taste test against an average metropolitan coffee shop (since thats what the system is designed to beat). Considering the average skill of coffee shop staff, you might agree that theres room for competition *:)

    I honestly think the Nespresso system is good for the interests of coffee generally, as it more or less sets a benchmark for amateurs and makes decent espresso available.
    look, over there, whats that under the bridge? I know, its a TROLL!!

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    AHAHAHAHAHA,

    Mr Macchiato: Creating controversy since 2005 ;D ;)


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    Re: Pod Snob?

    We had a pod system installed at work, they even had some sort of expert come out and give training, so I tagged along.


    I managed to hold my tongue when he mentioned that the pods contained fresh coffee and are good for 12 months. I was really curious as to how they could contain fresh coffee yet not expand and blow up from the releasing gases.

    I was given a can of roasted coffee (cant remember the brand) but I took it along to a Maltitude meet up one weekend. It made a good milk drink but was bland as espresso. The interesting thing was the cans were exploding from the released gases in the beans, at least we knew they were fresh :o

    Hows the coffee at work? pretty bad, fluffy milk, bad espresso. I dont drink it :(

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    could be a new guy, give him the benefit of the doubt....

    ...then give him a shot of herbazu.

    whats all this name calling lately? trolls? pea-hating? for espresso shots, a pod shot is indeed better than a bad shot.

  27. #27
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7C233B2D262D2128282B2B232F204E0 link=1127816102/13#13 date=1260789056
    btw, how long have you been working for Nestle?
    I would assume he is one of the new quality control staff recently employed by Nescrap to contain and defuse and online pod bashing.

    Either that or he has been led to believe that pods are the ants pants of coffee? Either way he came to the right place. Nowhere else would you find a forum where its members would willingly die before consuming such a product for both moral and culinary reasons.

    Sure the machinary costs a small fraction less than proper machines... but so does McDonalds and thats crap too ;D

  28. #28
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 71485658627A3D0 link=1127816102/26#26 date=1260930399
    Sure the machinery costs a small fraction less than proper machines... but so does McDonalds and thats crap too
    Yeah- same concept as buying $49 printer and being gouged for consumables ;)

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    Re: Pod Snob?

    hehe yes Chris, but unfortunately $25k printers gouge you even harder!

  30. #30
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4A67666D776A777A030 link=1127816102/25#25 date=1260925772
    for espresso shots, a pod shot is indeed better than a bad shot.
    If a bad espresso shot is weak, bitter, lacking crema nad body then you might ber right.

    If a bad espresso shot is a touch sour or only 25mls in 30 seconds rather than 30mls then you might be wrong.

    like all things coffee, it doesnt pay to generalise....

  31. #31
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 79617079756660140 link=1127816102/12#12 date=1260788680
    Quote Originally Posted by 7E4A5D4B50677B575E5E5D5D380 link=1127816102/2#2 date=1127860693

    Most pods that come out from the european market are too small for Oz conditions (6-7 ish grams per portion);

    Stale coffee, many times having a high proportion of robusta that gives that very characteristic flavour that you either like or you dont, and, many times having a very odd smell (the pod) from the old coffee oil absorbing into the blotting paper material the pod is made of....

    Marketing...not coffee, and if you check the price of some of the "deals"....for example, $75.00 for a carton of pods, containing 150 pods...thats basically $75.00 per kilo, for stale, under dosed coffee with high proprtions of robusta contained.....!
    Ok I know that there are some criticisms of the pod system, but if you are going to be a coffee snob, at least get your facts straight first....

    Firstly "Oz Conditions" are the exception to the rule. We are in a "Milk Market" which is more or less a wanna-be coffee culture. If I went to a good coffee house in europe and asked for some of the drinks we serve here, I would be laughed out the door.... Much to the surprise of some aussies, espresso was never meant to be consumed by the litre.

    Secondly, the coffee from Nespresso can potentially go stale (like any system), but its hermetically sealed so unless there is some defect in the particular pod, you will be fine for at least six months (though they claim 12 months, 6 months to be safe).

    Robusta - some of the blends have robusta, some dont. Its up to the individual to decide which one suits. So thats just about personal taste. The pursuit of pure arabica is not going to cover all tastes.

    If you really doubt what I am telling you, I can only suggest a blind taste test against an average metropolitan coffee shop (since thats what the system is designed to beat). Considering the average skill of coffee shop staff, you might agree that theres room for competition *:)

    I honestly think the Nespresso system is good for the interests of coffee generally, as it more or less sets a benchmark for amateurs and makes decent espresso available.
    What a heap of horse hockey, which branch of Nestle do you work for. ::)

  32. #32
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 3533242F35322A28410 link=1127816102/29#29 date=1260934708
    coffeehorse wrote on Today at 12:09:
    for espresso shots, a pod shot is indeed better than a bad shot.


    If a bad espresso shot is weak, bitter, lacking crema nad body then you might ber right.

    If a bad espresso shot is a touch sour or only 25mls in 30 seconds rather than 30mls then you might be wrong.

    like all things coffee, it doesnt pay to generalise....
    And for the record... i wouldnt drink an espresso shot if i though it was bad because it is only going to cost me less than 5 cents to pull another one.... a fresh one at that :)

  33. #33
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 66696C323D380B0 link=1127816102/23#23 date=1260828745
    Mr Macchiato: Creating controversy since 2005
    Yeah, some topics are timeless/cyclic.
    Good to see youre still on the coffee journey too Mr Macchiato.

    I must say that I had a laugh at some of the replies above, there are some real gems in there.

    One thing that has changed in the 4 years since Matt posted the thread is that there are some different pods around.

    It would have been covered in other threads but there is a big difference between pods and capsules.

    4 years ago we were all talking about the Nestle capsules, way too small to have enough coffee in them to get a good shot regardless of their heritage or age and they are a landfill nightmare with a huge amount of packaging waste.

    Step forward to 2009 and there are a few roasters using the real group handle shot sized pods. *Nitrogen flushed and if you didnt hold too many in stock and could ensure a fresher local product then they might have a place. *eg: great for decaf or similar low use coffees. *

    Ive looked at one company that was making "double shot" pods that were 14-16 grams which is certainly getting to a point of "enough coffee" to pull a shot.

    I think that a low cost, entry-level espresso machine that used pods might be just the device to get people off their instant coffee habit and get them exploring what coffee could be. *

    So am I going to swap my espresso gear at home for a pod machine? *No way, but I think a good pod system could be an upgrade to the jar of instant that most Australians still call coffee.


    edit: I just added a picture of a "modern" pod (not the plastic Nestle capsule). *A few Australian roasters are starting to trial these with good coffee in them (at the time of roasting anyway!).


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    reawaken the capsule/pod debate?

    Hi all,

    The mother-in-law is after a coffee machine and expects to make 1 cup a day. Maybe 2 cups if she has visitors.

    I may have accidentally suggested she get one of those machines that does the pods/capsules thing mostly because its better than the instant coffee she drinks now, its clean/quick to make a coffee and I thought it made sense with all that taken into account.

    I know there are some rabid-frothing-at-the-mouth/no-way-will-i-ever type coffee snobs out there, but seriously, are they really that bad? For someone who isnt going to make that many coffees every day?

    Anyway, some of your thoughts will be appreciated :)

  35. #35
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    Re: reawaken the capsule/pod debate?

    Pod machines are getting better, pods are getting better. For non snobs I think they would be good enough (ie better than instant) but I refuse to believe that a processed packaged product will ever be better than fresh roasted ground to order. So I would say depends on what sort of pod/capsule you are talking about as there would be variation in the quality.

  36. #36
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Consensus seems to be that:
    *The pods are expensive
    *You are trapped into buying only that brand of pods
    *The coffee in the pods is stale (maybe instant would taste better)

    The number of coffees per day is not the issue.
    Whether you drink one bad coffee per day or two, its still bad coffee.

  37. #37
    A_M
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6955485359584F5A52593D0 link=1127816102/35#35 date=1261273534
    Consensus seems to be that"
    *The pods are expensive
    *You are trapped into buying only that brand of pods
    *The coffee in the pods is stale (maybe instant would taste better)

    The number of coffees per day is not the issue.
    Whether you drink one bad coffee per day or two, its still bad coffee.
    So true TG..

    I also understand that the volume is small.. So tiny cups only. In addition... I understand that some pods / nespresso systems use a small component of instant ????

    I am aware that some people do have reusable pod type cartridges and thus you could pack ya own.... But if ya have to do that, ya still have to manage the issue of once ground.. STale very quickly..

    SO why bother.. Bad coffee is bad coffee...

  38. #38
    Senior Member Yelta's Avatar
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Quote Originally Posted by 6E524F545E5F485D555E3A0 link=1127816102/35#35 date=1261273534
    Consensus seems to be that"
    *The pods are expensive
    *You are trapped into buying only that brand of pods
    *The coffee in the pods is stale (maybe instant would taste better)
    Who am I to argue with the Consensus, hes a pretty knowledgeable guy when it comes to coffee :D
    Seriously, drank a lot of pod coffee in the US, all very ordinary. ::)

  39. #39
    Sleep is overrated Thundergod's Avatar
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    I accidentally drank some once.
    The little bakery next door to work in North Sydney had wonderful bread so I thought Id give their coffee a try (I was trying every place in Nth Syd. to try and find something decent).

    It was my own fault; I was talking to a colleague after I ordered and I didnt realise until it was too late that the big commercial machine they had was converted to take pods and I was too polite to say anything.

    Needless to say it didnt taste good at all.

    I kept buying their bread though.

  40. #40
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    Re: Pod Snob?

    Behmor Brazen - $249 - Free Freight
    Quote Originally Posted by 3A3C2B203A3D25274E0 link=1127816102/29#29 date=1260934708
    If a bad espresso shot is a touch sour or only 25mls in 30 seconds rather than 30mls then you might be wrong.
    hey trentski,

    not sure what was wrong with my comment, the things you highlight dont make it a bad shot imo.

    I usually go by what an espresso is, and accept that few shots will be flawless. A touch sour? Is that high acidity or a touch sour? 25ml in 30s vs 30ml in 30s is still within the WBC guidelines for a shot of espresso (30ml +-5ml, pours should be within 3 seconds of each other).



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